THE COMPREHENSIVE GSC NEVERUSED GUIDE: REMASTERED
Hi, I'm Bee, and I've been playing this tier for a good while now. The old GSC NU guide by dawnbuster has been getting a bit outdated as many metagame changes have happened since in 2022, 2023, and so far in 2024, so I wanted to take upon creating an updated version to the most modern state of the metagame (as of writing this). I am going to cover primarily individual Pokemon (that are at least semi-reasonably viable) but also eventually individual cores and overall team structures.
Disclaimer: Not necessarily ordered by viability
General resources available
Viability Rankings
Discussion Thread
GSC Mechanics
Sample Teams
Hi, I'm Bee, and I've been playing this tier for a good while now. The old GSC NU guide by dawnbuster has been getting a bit outdated as many metagame changes have happened since in 2022, 2023, and so far in 2024, so I wanted to take upon creating an updated version to the most modern state of the metagame (as of writing this). I am going to cover primarily individual Pokemon (that are at least semi-reasonably viable) but also eventually individual cores and overall team structures.
Disclaimer: Not necessarily ordered by viability
General resources available
Viability Rankings Discussion Thread GSC Mechanics Sample TeamsPart 1: The Pokemon
The Pine
Spiker
Pineco @ Leftovers / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Spikes
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Water
Pineco @ Leftovers / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Spikes
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Water
Pineco is one of the most defining pieces in the tier, whether it be on offense, balance, or even certain defensive teams. Pineco is one of only two legal Spikes users, with the other one being Delibird (I don't think I need to say any more). Spikes make an incredibly huge impact in every single game, altering pivotal interactions such as changing an Octillery switching into a Xatu Psychic from a 4HKO into a 3HKO, wearing down bulky Pokemon like Weezing and Sudowoodo as they repeatedly switch into attacks, and making it much less forgiving to switch in strong but slightly frail attackers like Stantler and Primeape into a special attacker like an Octillery. Spikes is the main move Pineco is usually going to be clicking, but after spiking or in a situation where there are more urgent matters such as a Wigglytuff or Stantler threatening to boost with Curse, Explosion is a valuable tool that threatens to trade for one of the opponent's pieces at any moment. Rapid Spin doesn't get used often but it's an excellent bonus for when Pineco manages to get an additional free turn beyond spiking and exploding or in situations where the opposing Pineco has been KOed or KOed itself already and using Rapid Spin for your own team may be a better play to control the game than using Spikes. Pineco doesn't need much beyond Spikes, Explosion, and Rapid Spin, but opposing Rock types, mainly Graveler, can be a nuisance, so Pineco often opts for Toxic to wear them down long-term or Giga Drain or Hidden Power Water to instantly take a large chunk out of Graveler and Pupitar. Giga Drain doesn't do as much as Hidden Power Water but it doesn't reduce DVs and gives a lot of healing, so it's usually preferred. You can also use Hidden Power Grass to be basically just Hidden Power Water but you trade even worse DVs for actually being able to damage Kingler's Substitute, unlike Giga Drain. Pineco has terrible stats, but it makes it work. It has horrendous speed and is 2HKOed by most STAB special attacks, but it has high defense and a decently useful Bug typing for being able to switch into Stantler, Dugtrio, and Primeape among others once or maybe even twice, along with of course its amazing set of moves. Pineco is a phenomenal Pokemon and every other Pokemon benefits from its Spikes in some way (with certain Pokemon like Dugtrio even requiring or close to requiring them to be consistently offensively threatening). The only issues are sometimes being unable to get it in safely and do much beyond spiking or spinning or being unable to fit it on a team in order to make for better defensive stability.
The Birds
RestTalk
Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ice
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Thief
Xatu
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Electric
- Thief
- Confuse Ray
Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Ice
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Thief
Xatu
Ability: No Ability
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Electric
- Thief
- Confuse Ray
Xatu's incredibly valuable Psychic/Flying typing and overall phenomenal stats make it a great choice. It's fast, it's strong, and with RestTalk and its list of resistances, it has enough bulk for most purposes. This typing allows Xatu to ignore Spikes, be a pivot or even threat to Earthquake users like Dugtrio, Graveler, and Stantler, switch into Primeape and Weezing (although with caution due to Thunder), be a great answer to non-Hidden Power Rock Kingler, hard counter Body Slam Hitmonlee and Gloom, and revenge kill Stantler (if Light Screen isn't up). The only viable Pokemon in the tier that resist Xatu's Psychic are Magnemite, Houndour, Sneasel, other Xatu, and Exeggcute. Of these, all besides other Xatu are relatively uncommon, Magnemite comes quite close to being 3HKOed especially with Spikes up, other Xatu is a speed tie, and Exeggcute is actually counterered (bar Explosion) by Xatu. Of course, you don't need a resist to handle Xatu, whether it be with an incredibly bulky Pokemon like Ninetales or Dewgong, but most "answers" besides these two barely hang on to dodging a 3HKO with Spikes up if they’re not outright 3HKOed, with Wigglytuff and Octillery being great examples. Psychic Special Defense drops or crits can also happen at any moment and remove any resemblance to the idea of an answer to Xatu, though obviously don't bank on it. Xatu's main issues are that while it's fast, there are still multiple things faster; while it's strong, it's not quite strong enough for certain things like Ninetales and Wigglytuff (even maybe with spikes) without the help of some hax; while it's decently bulky, it still takes close to 50 from STAB normal moves and Octillery's Surf and has plenty of prominent weaknesses like Electric, Ice, and Rock. However, with some team support and good play in addition to its never-useless defensive profile, Xatu has rightfully made its name as one of the best Pokemon in the tier.
RestTalk is the most common way to run Xatu, giving it solid longevity and letting it absorb status and take on Hidden Power Electric Octillery easier. Both Hidden Power Electric and Hidden Power Ice are fine for hitting other Xatu, with Hidden Power Electric also doing solid damage to Octillery and decent chip to Dewgong while Hidden Power Ice is an additional move for Dugtrio and reduces DVs less.
Thief is a more offensive direction for Xatu, being best on aggressive Spikes teams with things like Persian, Rapidash, and Dugtrio to overwhelm the opponent's Water types and other bulky Pokemon and help Xatu and its teammates break through easier. Xatu doesn't have a particular need for a fourth move, so Confuse Ray is likely the best bet for haxing through would-be-answers like Dewgong with Spikes up. Very neat threat and surprisingly deadly.
RestTalk is the most common way to run Xatu, giving it solid longevity and letting it absorb status and take on Hidden Power Electric Octillery easier. Both Hidden Power Electric and Hidden Power Ice are fine for hitting other Xatu, with Hidden Power Electric also doing solid damage to Octillery and decent chip to Dewgong while Hidden Power Ice is an additional move for Dugtrio and reduces DVs less.
Thief is a more offensive direction for Xatu, being best on aggressive Spikes teams with things like Persian, Rapidash, and Dugtrio to overwhelm the opponent's Water types and other bulky Pokemon and help Xatu and its teammates break through easier. Xatu doesn't have a particular need for a fourth move, so Confuse Ray is likely the best bet for haxing through would-be-answers like Dewgong with Spikes up. Very neat threat and surprisingly deadly.
RestTalk
Fearow @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Fearow @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Drill Peck
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Fearow is another top-tier Pokemon and boasts the incredibly Normal/Flying typing, granting it an incredibly powerful STAB Double-Edge complimented by a strong STAB Drill Peck for hitting Fighting types like Primeape and Hitmonlee in addition to making it neutral rather than weak to their STAB moves. Fearow doesn't need too much else and its movepool is quite shallow, so it almost always goes for a RestTalk set for maximum longevity and extra defensive utility. Fearow is very fast, outspeeding both Xatu and Primeape and having the capability to 2HKO Primeape and a potential [unfavored] chance to 2HKO Xatu. Fearow isn't the bulkiest, but it has enough to only be 3HKOed by most neutral/weak super effective attacks and is only 4HKOed by Gloom, and it still has amazing speed and raw power. Fearow's main roadblocks are the Rock types, namely Graveler, and Magnemite. Graveler is definitely the biggest issue, spinning away the Spikes that Fearow loves, taking little damage from its STAB moves, and hitting it or its switch-ins hard, so putting a good Graveler lure or answer alongside Fearow like Toxic or Hidden Power Water Pineco, Wigglytuff, Weezing, and Porygon is recommended. Pupitar is not too common and takes a lot more from Double-Edge than Graveler, Magnemite is barely not 3HKOed by Double-Edge so it can be pushed into range or crit, and Sudowoodo is walled by Octillery, but they can all still give Fearow's team trouble, especially if Dewgong as chosen as the bulky water rather than Octillery, seeing as it is actually weak to Rock and thus hesitant to repeatedly switch into Sudowoodo and Graveler. Fearow also has multiple common weaknesses besides Rock, such as Ice and Electric, but with proper team support it's manageable. Overall, Fearow is an amazing Pokemon that is incredibly rewarding for good play and proper team support and is a highly valuable piece of speed control and wallbreaking, especially against teams that lack a Rock-type.
The [Other] Main Normals
RestTalk
Stantler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Curse + Light Screen
Stantler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Light Screen
- Curse
Lead
Stantler
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
- Thief
Stantler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Curse + Light Screen
Stantler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Light Screen
- Curse
Lead
Stantler
Ability: No Ability
- Return
- Earthquake
- Hypnosis
- Thief
Stantler is one of the most powerful raw offensive threats in the entire tier. 95 attack is the single highest of any Normal type, making its Return even more powerful than Wigglytuff's Double-Edge without any of the recoil. What separates Stantler from other powerful Normal types like the aforementioned Wigglytuff and Fearow is Earthquake. Earthquake is an incredibly important and powerful coverage move, allowing Stantler to single-handedly muscle through Weezing and trashing Graveler, Pupitar, and especially Magnemite, while significantly helping against Sudowoodo as well as other Ground-weak targets like the Fire types. Stantler lacking the Flying type also makes it much better at threatening Pokemon that would threaten Fearow such as Chinchou, Dewgong, and Magnemite, though obviously at the cost of losing the Flying type's benefits. The combination of Return and Earthquake gives Stantler all the coverage it needs, so it has plenty of other options to explore for its final two moveslots.
RestTalk grants Stantler longevity and the ability to be a prolonged switch-in to Dewgong and Chinchou while also giving it a second life when just using it as a battering ram. RestTalk is just a very nice way to give a powerful offensive threat additional defensive utility and is a good choice. RestTalk Stantler cannot be used carelessly however, as while sleeping, the offensive output Stantler has is very inconsistent when it comes to Xatu or Fearow getting free switches on an Earthquake or Rest pull from Sleep Talk, not getting consistent Return pulls in front of an Octillery or Dewgong, etc. Still, I believe RestTalk is the most splashable Stantler set, the one that gets you the most consistent balance of offensive and defensive output on the most teams.
Curse + Light Screen Stantler is the single deadliest pure offensive threat, being already powerful unboosted and skyrocketing to a monster once boosted. Curse and Light Screen combine to make Stantler difficult to take down too, with it almost always forcing a 1 for 1 trade at minimum and often taking down half of or an entire other Pokemon. The main reason this set is in my opinion not as good as the RestTalk set is because it has significantly less defensive utility, with no recovery, sometimes middling speed, and decent but not superb bulk, often being relegated to getting in on an aggressive double switch or on a revenge in the mid-late game. Using Curse and Light Screen also consumes turns and in the case of Curse makes Stantler slower, so it often takes a lot of hits while setting up and attacking. This set has to be respected though.
Lead Stantler faces strong competition from lead Persian and means you don't have a different Stantler, but it's still a functional and pretty decent set. Thief steals Leftovers and makes it easier for Stantler itself and its team to break easier later on, and combined with Stantler's actually decent Special Attack, it's not even terrible chip on Xatu. Hypnosis helps out against Weezing, Pineco, Sudowoodo, and other various Pokemon who either you want to put of commission or have their sleep counter while RestTalking messed up, though the accuracy is a real detriment. Fairly good set but it's a bit inconsistent and doesn't see too much usage for a reason. Still a Stantler though.
RestTalk grants Stantler longevity and the ability to be a prolonged switch-in to Dewgong and Chinchou while also giving it a second life when just using it as a battering ram. RestTalk is just a very nice way to give a powerful offensive threat additional defensive utility and is a good choice. RestTalk Stantler cannot be used carelessly however, as while sleeping, the offensive output Stantler has is very inconsistent when it comes to Xatu or Fearow getting free switches on an Earthquake or Rest pull from Sleep Talk, not getting consistent Return pulls in front of an Octillery or Dewgong, etc. Still, I believe RestTalk is the most splashable Stantler set, the one that gets you the most consistent balance of offensive and defensive output on the most teams.
Curse + Light Screen Stantler is the single deadliest pure offensive threat, being already powerful unboosted and skyrocketing to a monster once boosted. Curse and Light Screen combine to make Stantler difficult to take down too, with it almost always forcing a 1 for 1 trade at minimum and often taking down half of or an entire other Pokemon. The main reason this set is in my opinion not as good as the RestTalk set is because it has significantly less defensive utility, with no recovery, sometimes middling speed, and decent but not superb bulk, often being relegated to getting in on an aggressive double switch or on a revenge in the mid-late game. Using Curse and Light Screen also consumes turns and in the case of Curse makes Stantler slower, so it often takes a lot of hits while setting up and attacking. This set has to be respected though.
Lead Stantler faces strong competition from lead Persian and means you don't have a different Stantler, but it's still a functional and pretty decent set. Thief steals Leftovers and makes it easier for Stantler itself and its team to break easier later on, and combined with Stantler's actually decent Special Attack, it's not even terrible chip on Xatu. Hypnosis helps out against Weezing, Pineco, Sudowoodo, and other various Pokemon who either you want to put of commission or have their sleep counter while RestTalking messed up, though the accuracy is a real detriment. Fairly good set but it's a bit inconsistent and doesn't see too much usage for a reason. Still a Stantler though.
Lead
Persian
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Hypnosis
- Thief
- Screech / Thunder
RestTalk
Persian @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Persian
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Hypnosis
- Thief
- Screech / Thunder
RestTalk
Persian @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Persian, aided by its Normal typing, a vast movepool, and an incredible speed stat of 115 that only sets it behind Dugtrio, is quite a great choice on highly offensive teams. Persian is a powerful and diverse utility threat and revenge killer, starting off games strong in the lead slot or occasionally sitting in the back. However, asides from its speed, Persian has relatively subpar stats, as other Normal types like Stantler and Fearow have similar bulk but are much stronger, while Wigglytuff has similar power but far superior bulk. Despite this, Persian carves out a very solid place in the metagame with its speed and movepool.
Lead Hypnosis + Thief Persian is the single best dedicated lead in the tier. It matches up fairly well into almost everything because of Hypnosis and Thief. Thief allows Persian to reliably beat opposing Xatu leads, knocking it into range of a 2HKO from Double-Edge due to Thief being super effective and Persian having a surprisingly passable Special Attack stat. Thief also allows Persian to cripple many other Pokemon, such as Octillery, Dewgong, Magnemite, and more. Hypnosis meanwhile is a great tool to shut down Pokemon like Weezing, Graveler, Pineco, and Magmar, provided it lands. The only Pokemon that can reliably beat this set are Miracle Berry Pineco, Magnemite, and RestTalk Sudowoodo, none of which are particularly common. Magnemite does show up from time to time, certainly more than the other two, but it also hates having its Leftovers stolen the most. Adding on Screech to help break past sleeping Pokemon like Weezing, Dewgong, and Octillery, it can sometimes feel nearly impossible to stop Persian from seriously damaging or outright killing 1-2 opposing Pokemon. Thunder can also be used instead to do more immediate damage to Octillery, Dewgong, Fearow, and Xatu at the risk of missing.
RestTalk Persian is significantly more situational due to competition with other Normal type RestTalk users like Stantler and Wigglytuff, in addition to Double-Edge recoil occasionally making it fall short slightly, however, if in need of Persian's Speed and the need for a check to Dewgong and Chinchou, RestTalk Persian can fill that role decently. RestTalk also gives Persian some added surprise factor when it heals off all the damage its taken with Rest, since most people will expect the more traditional lead set. It's not a superb set, however, I think it's pretty neat and it has a fairly decent niche.
Lead Hypnosis + Thief Persian is the single best dedicated lead in the tier. It matches up fairly well into almost everything because of Hypnosis and Thief. Thief allows Persian to reliably beat opposing Xatu leads, knocking it into range of a 2HKO from Double-Edge due to Thief being super effective and Persian having a surprisingly passable Special Attack stat. Thief also allows Persian to cripple many other Pokemon, such as Octillery, Dewgong, Magnemite, and more. Hypnosis meanwhile is a great tool to shut down Pokemon like Weezing, Graveler, Pineco, and Magmar, provided it lands. The only Pokemon that can reliably beat this set are Miracle Berry Pineco, Magnemite, and RestTalk Sudowoodo, none of which are particularly common. Magnemite does show up from time to time, certainly more than the other two, but it also hates having its Leftovers stolen the most. Adding on Screech to help break past sleeping Pokemon like Weezing, Dewgong, and Octillery, it can sometimes feel nearly impossible to stop Persian from seriously damaging or outright killing 1-2 opposing Pokemon. Thunder can also be used instead to do more immediate damage to Octillery, Dewgong, Fearow, and Xatu at the risk of missing.
RestTalk Persian is significantly more situational due to competition with other Normal type RestTalk users like Stantler and Wigglytuff, in addition to Double-Edge recoil occasionally making it fall short slightly, however, if in need of Persian's Speed and the need for a check to Dewgong and Chinchou, RestTalk Persian can fill that role decently. RestTalk also gives Persian some added surprise factor when it heals off all the damage its taken with Rest, since most people will expect the more traditional lead set. It's not a superb set, however, I think it's pretty neat and it has a fairly decent niche.
Curse
Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Body Slam / Double-Edge / Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Mixed
Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge / Return / Body Slam
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Body Slam / Double-Edge / Return
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Mixed
Wigglytuff @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Double-Edge / Return / Body Slam
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Wigglytuff is the slow and bulky counterpart to something like Stantler or Persian, usually preferring to just sit on the field for several turns doing stuff instead of dashing in and out and revenge killing. Wigglytuff can at times be an incredibly dangerous threat with its solid bulk, being difficult to 3HKO once it's already on the field. However, Wigglytuff being so slow and often preferring to be on the field for several turns at a time make it extremely vulnerable to Spikes and hax, so at times it can be hit or miss. Wigglytuff is also a fairly solid check to Dewgong, Chinchou, and Xatu, giving it solid defensive utility.
Curse Wigglytuff is the most common and consistently deadly set, posing to sit down and spam Curse and RestTalk while sitting in front of something like Xatu or Dewgong, which cannot 3HKO Wigglytuff without hax. Double-Edge has serious power, as even unboosted Double-Edges can threaten to 3HKO many neutral targets, however it comes with some potentially debilitating recoil. Body Slam is the most common choice, threatening paralysis on checks like Weezing, Primeape, Pineco, or Sudowoodo while not causing recoil, though it is quite weak even at +1. Return is the least common due to Body Slam often being superior and lack of specialization, as you have neither the supreme power of Double-Edge nor the paralysis of Body Slam to make up for the lower power, however, it is not an inherently bad option. Wigglytuff with only 1 Curse boost is often incredibly difficult to take down, and all the meanwhile it threatens to 2- or even OHKO whatever Pokemon you have in front of it. Often, counterplay to Wigglytuff includes a variety of pieces, from Spikes to carefully timed Explosions to Fighting types to fishing for hax or just brute forcing through it with strong moves before it can set up. As a result of this, Curse Wiggltuff has some really high highs and really low lows, sometimes just sweeping through an entire team and other times getting completely overwhelmed. More often than not however, it will provide at least some value.
Mixed Wigglytuff is significantly rarer, as without Curse, while it still can do decent damage with super effective coverage and the power of STAB Double-Edge or the paralysis threat of Body Slam, Curse just tends to be a much more straightforward and effective threat across games. However, mixed Wigglytuff is not a bad choice for partnering up with Growth pass Flareon, still being potentially irritating to KO and now having the power to seriously threaten even neutral targets with a non-STAB Thunder. Neat set but uncommon for a reason.
Curse Wigglytuff is the most common and consistently deadly set, posing to sit down and spam Curse and RestTalk while sitting in front of something like Xatu or Dewgong, which cannot 3HKO Wigglytuff without hax. Double-Edge has serious power, as even unboosted Double-Edges can threaten to 3HKO many neutral targets, however it comes with some potentially debilitating recoil. Body Slam is the most common choice, threatening paralysis on checks like Weezing, Primeape, Pineco, or Sudowoodo while not causing recoil, though it is quite weak even at +1. Return is the least common due to Body Slam often being superior and lack of specialization, as you have neither the supreme power of Double-Edge nor the paralysis of Body Slam to make up for the lower power, however, it is not an inherently bad option. Wigglytuff with only 1 Curse boost is often incredibly difficult to take down, and all the meanwhile it threatens to 2- or even OHKO whatever Pokemon you have in front of it. Often, counterplay to Wigglytuff includes a variety of pieces, from Spikes to carefully timed Explosions to Fighting types to fishing for hax or just brute forcing through it with strong moves before it can set up. As a result of this, Curse Wiggltuff has some really high highs and really low lows, sometimes just sweeping through an entire team and other times getting completely overwhelmed. More often than not however, it will provide at least some value.
Mixed Wigglytuff is significantly rarer, as without Curse, while it still can do decent damage with super effective coverage and the power of STAB Double-Edge or the paralysis threat of Body Slam, Curse just tends to be a much more straightforward and effective threat across games. However, mixed Wigglytuff is not a bad choice for partnering up with Growth pass Flareon, still being potentially irritating to KO and now having the power to seriously threaten even neutral targets with a non-STAB Thunder. Neat set but uncommon for a reason.
Curse
Porygon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
BoltBeam
Porygon @ Leftovers / No Item
Ability: No Ability
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave / Thief
- Recover
Porygon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Thunder Wave
- Recover
BoltBeam
Porygon @ Leftovers / No Item
Ability: No Ability
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave / Thief
- Recover
Porygon's pitiful stats are made up in waves by its access to the absolutely phenomenal Recover in addition to its Normal typing. Porygon gets 3HKOed by close to everything, but Recover makes all those practically null if Porygon is kept healthy. Thunder Wave is also an amazing tool, being almost as essential to Porygon's function as Recover, allowing it to overcome its awful base 40 Speed and plow through teams, as well as full paralysis just being broken. With Recover, Porygon can check Xatu, Dewgong, Octillery, Stantler, Rapidash, Graveler, and Dugtrio, as well as being able to threaten Pokemon like Fearow and Weezing with Thunder Wave even if it cannot switch into them directly. However, Porygon still has some issues, including but not limited to: Spikes, Pineco, other Explosions, Fighting types, Magnemite, and status. Still, overall, Porygon is a huge threat.
Curse Porygon is definitely the better of the two sets, abusing access to Thunder Wave to the fullest by helping it both gain free setup turns and overcome worsening its already low speed even further with Curse. Boosting up with Curse makes Porygon impossible to defeat on the physical side without an Explosion or a Fighting type move (which can still fail at higher amounts of Curse boosts), and it makes it extremely powerful with boosted STAB Double-Edges. Curse Porygon also has good flexibility with not really needing Spikes to function, so you can use it on more teams. Curse Porygon is really obnoxious and is one of the deadliest Pokemon in the tier if not handled with caution both in the builder and the battle.
BoltBeam Porygon has become increasingly less common due to Curse Porygon being so good and issues with popular threats like RestTalk Stantler and RestTalk Primeape, but it's not necessarily a bad Pokemon itself and it's been used in the tier some. Thunder Wave and Recover are still solid tools, though you can also use Thief to punish things like Wigglytuff and RestTalk Deer, though losing Thunder Wave really sucks. Thunder and Ice Beam are the best combination of special attacks to hit the most Pokemon for super effective damage, including Xatu, Octillery, Dewgong, Dugtrio, Graveler, Pupitar, and Fearow. However, overall I think this set is much harder to extract value out of than the Curse set in the modern metagame with RestTalk Fires, RestTalk Stantler, RestTalk Primeape, and Wigglytuff all being so good.
Curse Porygon is definitely the better of the two sets, abusing access to Thunder Wave to the fullest by helping it both gain free setup turns and overcome worsening its already low speed even further with Curse. Boosting up with Curse makes Porygon impossible to defeat on the physical side without an Explosion or a Fighting type move (which can still fail at higher amounts of Curse boosts), and it makes it extremely powerful with boosted STAB Double-Edges. Curse Porygon also has good flexibility with not really needing Spikes to function, so you can use it on more teams. Curse Porygon is really obnoxious and is one of the deadliest Pokemon in the tier if not handled with caution both in the builder and the battle.
BoltBeam Porygon has become increasingly less common due to Curse Porygon being so good and issues with popular threats like RestTalk Stantler and RestTalk Primeape, but it's not necessarily a bad Pokemon itself and it's been used in the tier some. Thunder Wave and Recover are still solid tools, though you can also use Thief to punish things like Wigglytuff and RestTalk Deer, though losing Thunder Wave really sucks. Thunder and Ice Beam are the best combination of special attacks to hit the most Pokemon for super effective damage, including Xatu, Octillery, Dewgong, Dugtrio, Graveler, Pupitar, and Fearow. However, overall I think this set is much harder to extract value out of than the Curse set in the modern metagame with RestTalk Fires, RestTalk Stantler, RestTalk Primeape, and Wigglytuff all being so good.
The Bulky Waters
RestTalk
Octillery @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Octillery @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Octillery is simply just one of the best and easiest to use Pokemon in the tier. Pure Water is an amazing typing, it's incredibly strong with 105 Special Attack and STAB Surf, and it's got fairly alright bulk with RestTalk. Very little safely switches into Octillery, with the extent of checking it beyond Chinchou, Hitmonlee, and (if Hidden Power Electric, which albeit it usually is) Grasses being to try and trade health and position with your own Hidden Power Electric Octillery or just out-offense it, both of which can be unreliable. All of Chinchou, Hitmonlee, and Grass types are relatively uncommon and tend to be easily exploitable too (except maybe Chinchou but it depends). Octillery is incredibly splashable and works amazingly as a glue on so many teams for its ability to check other Octillery if using Hidden Power Electric, soft check Xatu, answer Dugtrio, and be the best non-Fire answer to Fire types, as well as just being a strong source of reliable offense. Hidden Power Electric is the most common Octillery set for both checking other Octillery and not giving free entry to other Octillery, and the pressure on Dewgong is also nice. If using something that can consistently answer opposing Octillery (pretty much limited to just Chinch and Hitmonlee), though, Ice Beam is a good option for making Oct better into Xatu, Dugtrio, and Fearow, not nerfing Octillery's bulk with DV requirements, and having the ability to freeze. Octillery does have exploitable issues (besides Chinchou), namely not the best Speed or bulk allowing it to be easily pressured by faster Pokemon with Spikes up, but the weaknesses are absolutely worth accomodating for or ignoring to be able to use Octillery effectively. Top 5 Pokemon at minimum.
RestTalk
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Toxic + Encore
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Ice Beam
- Encore
- Toxic
- Protect
Growth Pass Recipient
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass
- Protect
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Toxic + Encore
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Ice Beam
- Encore
- Toxic
- Protect
Growth Pass Recipient
Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass
- Protect
Dewgong is Octillery's countpart and is almost as good. Both are amazing, but Dewgong has some key advantages, though also some disadvantages. Dewgong is for one, much faster and bulkier than Octillery. Dewgong is so fast it even outspeeds Chinchou, as well as more importantly Flareon and Weezing. Dewgong is also heavily favored to survive a 4HKO from Xatu, is favored to survive a 3HKO from Flareon's Fire Blast and is faster, isn't 2HKOed by Weezing's Thunder, is almost never 3HKOed by Stantler's Frustration, and takes less than 40% from Fearow's Double-Edge after Leftovers, just for some examples. Dewgong's Ice typing is both a blessing and a curse. It grants Dewgong STAB on Ice Beam, giving it a super spammable attack that even has a freeze chance, and makes it immune to freezes from Octillery's Ice Beams. However, Dewgong being Ice type also means it is weak to Rock rather than neutral, severely worsening its matchup into Sudowoodo namely but also Pupitar, Graveler, and Dugtrio to a lesser extent. Dewgong also does not resist Fire, which while isn't the biggest deal when it comes to Rapidash and Flareon, is a huge detriment against Sunny Day Ninetales and Sunny Day Magmar. Dewgong is also weak to Fighting, making it quite poor against Primeape and Hitmonlee. Overall, I would say Dewgong is not as good as Octillery individually, however it's still an amazing Pokemon and has plenty of merits that justify its use.
RestTalk is the bread and butter of Dewgong, letting it stay alive long-term to ward off threats like Xatu, Weezing, Flareon, and even Octillery if needed while dishing out hits and getting more chances to freeze. RestTalk Dewgong is really hard to kill with its huge bulk and good Speed and honestly kind of demands teams use a check to it like RestTalk Stantler, RestTalk Primeape, Chinchou, Wigglytuff, Porygon, Hitmonlee, or Kingler. Without one of these, teams will usually crumple to RestTalk Dewgong. This is a fairly lengthy list, however just the fact that Dewgong demands one of these be on about every team can be constricting. These Pokemon can still fail to answer Dewgong too, whether it be because of freezes or crits or just getting outplayed and dying before Dewgong is gone.
Toxic + Encore Dewgong is rarer and can be hard to fit, but its main niche is being able to force its way through Octillery and even things like Wigglytuff or Porygon with Toxic for consistent chip and Encore to either prevent a healing move from being used or lock them into the healing move to get a free switch. Protect helps with getting extra Leftovers, blocking Explosion, and getting more Toxic chip. If not played around carefully or you don't have the right team, this Dewgong set can be a menace. However, this Dewgong set is also much more prone to getting chipped down without RestTalk from various hits like Xatu's Psychic and Octillery's Hidden Power Electric, especially with Spikes up. Status is also a huge pain without RestTalk, and this Dewgong set lacks the ability to threaten Fires without Surf.
Three attacks + Protect Dewgong is very specific, but it is by far the best recipient of Growth from Growth + Baton Pass Flareon. Dewgong has about everything you'd want for this role, with solid Speed, amazing coverage, enough Special Attack you need to land all the crucial 2- and 3HKOes at +1, and phenomenal bulk. Hidden Power Grass is able to nail Chinchou, Octillery, and other Dewgong after a boost, while Protect is important for racking up Leftovers and blocking Explosion. Really the only downside to this Dewgong set when placed on a Growth Pass team is its weakness to Primeape and Hitmonlee, so for that reason it usually pairs with Xatu as well. Incredibly dangerous Pokemon.
RestTalk is the bread and butter of Dewgong, letting it stay alive long-term to ward off threats like Xatu, Weezing, Flareon, and even Octillery if needed while dishing out hits and getting more chances to freeze. RestTalk Dewgong is really hard to kill with its huge bulk and good Speed and honestly kind of demands teams use a check to it like RestTalk Stantler, RestTalk Primeape, Chinchou, Wigglytuff, Porygon, Hitmonlee, or Kingler. Without one of these, teams will usually crumple to RestTalk Dewgong. This is a fairly lengthy list, however just the fact that Dewgong demands one of these be on about every team can be constricting. These Pokemon can still fail to answer Dewgong too, whether it be because of freezes or crits or just getting outplayed and dying before Dewgong is gone.
Toxic + Encore Dewgong is rarer and can be hard to fit, but its main niche is being able to force its way through Octillery and even things like Wigglytuff or Porygon with Toxic for consistent chip and Encore to either prevent a healing move from being used or lock them into the healing move to get a free switch. Protect helps with getting extra Leftovers, blocking Explosion, and getting more Toxic chip. If not played around carefully or you don't have the right team, this Dewgong set can be a menace. However, this Dewgong set is also much more prone to getting chipped down without RestTalk from various hits like Xatu's Psychic and Octillery's Hidden Power Electric, especially with Spikes up. Status is also a huge pain without RestTalk, and this Dewgong set lacks the ability to threaten Fires without Surf.
Three attacks + Protect Dewgong is very specific, but it is by far the best recipient of Growth from Growth + Baton Pass Flareon. Dewgong has about everything you'd want for this role, with solid Speed, amazing coverage, enough Special Attack you need to land all the crucial 2- and 3HKOes at +1, and phenomenal bulk. Hidden Power Grass is able to nail Chinchou, Octillery, and other Dewgong after a boost, while Protect is important for racking up Leftovers and blocking Explosion. Really the only downside to this Dewgong set when placed on a Growth Pass team is its weakness to Primeape and Hitmonlee, so for that reason it usually pairs with Xatu as well. Incredibly dangerous Pokemon.
The Not-Quite-Bulky Waters
RestTalk
Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
3 Attacks + Thunder Wave
Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
3 Attacks + Thunder Wave
Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
Chinchou is a very specific but potentially extremely deadly threat. Chinchou has one primary purpose, and that is to switch into Octillery and Dewgong thanks to its phenomenal typing and then use them to fire off powerful attacks. Electric resists are quite uncommon in NU, and 2 of them, Graveler and Pupitar, are outsped and OHKOed by Chinchou's Surf, meaning the only true switches to Chinchou's Thunder are Dugtrio and Grass types, usually Gloom. Dugtrio takes over 70% from Surf and all Grass types are both slower than Chinchou and hate taking paralysis from Thunder. Often, this means Chinchou has to be carefully played around (or you hope for Thunder misses) with things like RestTalk Stantler, RestTalk Primeape, and Wigglytuff. One important difference Chinchou has from Dewgong when it comes to accounting for threats in the builder is that Porygon is not an effective Chinchou answer at all due to danger of Thunder paralysis, which can be constricting. The main kicker is that Octillery and Dewgong are incredibly essential Pokemon to the tier and one or both will feature on the vast majority of teams, meaning basically every team will have something that gives Chinchou free entry to wreak havoc. Chinchou has some pretty major issues though, the most glaring one being that Chinchou has negative bulk if you're attempting to use it for something other than Octillery and Dewgong, getting 2- or 3HKOed by basically every STAB neutral hit. Chinchou also instantly drops to a Dugtrio Earthquake, so you can't even attempt to stay in a turn and tank a hit and use Surf like you could with say, Ninetales or Magmar. The other incredibly annoying issue with Chinchou is Thunder accuracy, which can be an enormous detriment if you get unlucky. Chinchou can also at times be difficult to fit on offensive Spikes teams for its weakness to Normal types. However, definitely do not underestimate Chinchou's seemingly pitiful stats, it can be a real terror in the battle.
Surf and Thunder are Chinchou's STAB moves and in the majority of matchups all you really need honestly. The most common Chinchou set, RestTalk is a natural choice for the filler moves and keeps Chinchou alive in the face of taking repeated hits from Octillery and Dewgong, especially with Spikes up, and can even maybe let it stay in on something it otherwise would not appreciate taking chip damage from if you need it to.
Ice Beam + Thunder Wave is a fairly rare set, but Thunder Wave is a really amazing move that can nail almost any target for a debilitating Speed drop and full paralysis chance (as seen with Porygon), and Ice Beam is a good pick to scare away Grass types like Gloom and has a small chance to freeze.
Surf and Thunder are Chinchou's STAB moves and in the majority of matchups all you really need honestly. The most common Chinchou set, RestTalk is a natural choice for the filler moves and keeps Chinchou alive in the face of taking repeated hits from Octillery and Dewgong, especially with Spikes up, and can even maybe let it stay in on something it otherwise would not appreciate taking chip damage from if you need it to.
Ice Beam + Thunder Wave is a fairly rare set, but Thunder Wave is a really amazing move that can nail almost any target for a debilitating Speed drop and full paralysis chance (as seen with Porygon), and Ice Beam is a good pick to scare away Grass types like Gloom and has a small chance to freeze.
Hidden Power Ground
Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Return / Body Slam / Dobule-Edge
- Hidden Power Ground*
- Substitute / Protect
*Note: Surf can be used instead of HP Ground but that would make the set more complicated unnecessarily
Hidden Power Rock
Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 24 Def
- Swords Dance
- Return / Double-Edge
- Hidden Power Rock
- Surf
Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Return / Body Slam / Dobule-Edge
- Hidden Power Ground*
- Substitute / Protect
*Note: Surf can be used instead of HP Ground but that would make the set more complicated unnecessarily
Hidden Power Rock
Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 22 HP / 26 Atk / 24 Def
- Swords Dance
- Return / Double-Edge
- Hidden Power Rock
- Surf
Kingler is tied for the highest Attack in the tier with Flareon and brings Swords Dance to the table, boosting up to easily be able to 2HKO or OHKO any threat, especially if you manage to pull off a second Swords Dance. Kingler has a fairly decent Speed tier, being faster than Weezing, Chinchou, and Octillery. Kingler also has alright typing and a high Defense stat, being able to set up on Dewgong, Ice Beam Octillery, Flareon, and Dugtrio and being able to stomach multiple physical hits while plowing through teams. However, Kingler has some awful issues, mainly its terrible Special Defense that means it's easily 2HKOed by Xatu, Hidden Power Electric Octillery, Thunder Primeape, Magmar, and Weezing. Kingler, while fairly fast, is still outsped by several common threats, like Xatu, Primeape, Fearow, Stantler, and Magmar, so it can often be revenge killed without too much damage done. Xatu especially is a large nuisance, being able to 2HKO with either Psychic or Hidden Power Electric and not even dying to a +2 Double-Edge, so Kingler often needs to tech or have heavy team support for it. Kingler can also at times be difficult to fit on teams for its minimal defensive utility. However, for teams without Xatu (which are becoming increasingly common), Kingler is a huge threat and can sometimes be one Thunder miss away from sweeping.
Hidden Power Ground Kingler can do upwards of 70% to Weezing at +2, whereas +2 Return would almost always fail to 2HKO a full health Weezing and +2 Double-Edge will cause Kingler to take heavy recoil and put itself into range of Weezing's Thunder. Hidden Power Ground Kingler can also OHKO Magnemite without a boost. Body Slam can be used instead of Return to fish for paralysis, though the lesser damage is really noticeable. Return + Hidden Power Ground has great overall coverage, so the last slot has some flexibility. You can use Substitute to take advantage of Pineco, paralysis and generally slow teams, you can use Protect for Leftovers and blocking Explosion, you could probably even use something like Amnesia for boosting Special Defense, Double-Edge for flexibility, or Hyper Beam to snipe Xatu. Kingler's Xatu issues are most noticeable with this set though, as Xatu isn't OHKOed by even a +2 Double-Edge and gets easy entry on Swords Dance.
Hidden Power Rock Kingler is the set that can actually not just straight up lose to Xatu, being able to easily OHKO at +2. Since Return + Hidden Power Rock does nothing to the Rocks, Surf fits pretty nicely to OHKO Graveler and Pupitar and 2HKO Sudowoodo, though Magnemite can still be annoying. Surf also means you don't have the flexibility to run Substitute or whatever. The main issue with this set is Weezing, because without Hidden Power Ground, Return will almost never 2HKO from full health and Double-Edge's recoil is pretty awful, so you just get Thundered into oblivion. Pretty cool set.
Hidden Power Ground Kingler can do upwards of 70% to Weezing at +2, whereas +2 Return would almost always fail to 2HKO a full health Weezing and +2 Double-Edge will cause Kingler to take heavy recoil and put itself into range of Weezing's Thunder. Hidden Power Ground Kingler can also OHKO Magnemite without a boost. Body Slam can be used instead of Return to fish for paralysis, though the lesser damage is really noticeable. Return + Hidden Power Ground has great overall coverage, so the last slot has some flexibility. You can use Substitute to take advantage of Pineco, paralysis and generally slow teams, you can use Protect for Leftovers and blocking Explosion, you could probably even use something like Amnesia for boosting Special Defense, Double-Edge for flexibility, or Hyper Beam to snipe Xatu. Kingler's Xatu issues are most noticeable with this set though, as Xatu isn't OHKOed by even a +2 Double-Edge and gets easy entry on Swords Dance.
Hidden Power Rock Kingler is the set that can actually not just straight up lose to Xatu, being able to easily OHKO at +2. Since Return + Hidden Power Rock does nothing to the Rocks, Surf fits pretty nicely to OHKO Graveler and Pupitar and 2HKO Sudowoodo, though Magnemite can still be annoying. Surf also means you don't have the flexibility to run Substitute or whatever. The main issue with this set is Weezing, because without Hidden Power Ground, Return will almost never 2HKO from full health and Double-Edge's recoil is pretty awful, so you just get Thundered into oblivion. Pretty cool set.
Double Dance
Seaking @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge / Return
- Hidden Power Ground
- Agility
Seaking @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
IVs: 14 HP / 24 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge / Return
- Hidden Power Ground
- Agility
Seaking is essentially a mini Kingler. Unlike Kingler, it has real Special Defense and even has Agility too, but it has significantly lower Attack and a little less Speed, albeit there isn't much difference between base 70 and base 75 in this tier. Seaking is kind of difficult to use by itself because like, use Kingler, but it can if you really need the extra bulk since +2 attacks are still pretty strong. Seaking mainly shines as a second Kingler alongside Kingler to either take advantage of what Kingler already did, or to break holes for Kingler to follow after. It's quite constraining on teambuilding, but if you can fit it, it's pretty potent. Niche Pokemon overall but it has some neat traits and can be fairly deadly.
The Weez
Explosion
Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunder
- Explosion
- Fire Blast / Hidden Power Water / Haze / Protect
RestTalk
Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Sludge Bomb
- Curse / Haze / Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunder
- Explosion
- Fire Blast / Hidden Power Water / Haze / Protect
RestTalk
Weezing @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Sludge Bomb
- Curse / Haze / Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Weezing is one of the absolute best Pokemon in the tier, and in my opinion, THE best. Weezing does so much for every team it features on. Weezing is one of the best checks to Primeape, who is otherwise a terror. Weezing has impeccable coverage with Sludge Bomb as a fairly powerful STAB, Thunder to smack Xatu, Fearow, Octillery, and Dewgong, and arguably most importantly, Explosion. Weezing has such a vast movepool you can use almost anything you want for tech or cool options. Weezing has very few reliable switch-ins, usually just being Ninetales, itself, and Dugtrio, with other checks like Xatu, Rapidash, and Graveler being unreliable due to lower bulk or coverage moves. Weezing isn't very fast, but it's fast enough to be able to outrun Pokemon like Octillery, Magnemite, Pupitar, Wigglytuff, Porygon, and Pineco. Weezing's defensive utility mostly comes from checking Primeape and Hitmonlee, scaring Gloom, switching into itself, and using Explosion, but it has enormous physical bulk that it can use to be a short-term check to Fearow, it can threaten status on Porygon, and provide a pivot against Stantler. Weezing does have some issues that mostly come from its middling Speed, causing it to dislike Spikes a lot and potentially be worn down long-term by something like Primeape, as well as its Psychic and Ground weakness, but Weezing is such an amazing Pokemon offensively with a valuable defensive role it's absolutely worth compensating for.
Weezing is one of only a few Explosion users in GSC NU, and it grants Weezing a lot of valuable and flexible offensive and defensive utility. Offensively, Explosion grants Weezing a final stand to almost guarantee to take a Pokemon down with it when at low health, it can trade itself for an opposing Weezing to free the way for Primeape, it can eliminate Ninetales for a teammate like Magmar or Xatu, it can blow up Dugtrio when on a highly aggressive team to prevent it from wrecking house and to help out something like Chinchou, and it generally allows for aggressive plays if you really need something on the opponent's team gone to start making progress but may not necessarily have the defensive capability at that moment to break through without using Explosion. Defensively, Explosion is mainly useful for eliminating dangerous threats to your team, namely setup sweepers like Wigglytuff and Porygon, and it can also remove things like once again Weezing and Ninetales if they are super dangerous to your team. Weezing has a lot of good options in the last slot, usually Fire Blast or Hidden Power Water. Fire Blast is the most common and even just the threat of it makes Weezing a fairly alright switch to threaten out a spiking Pineco if your team doesn't have another way to force it out and it was given a free switch, as Fire Blast has a decent chance to OHKO Pineco from full health, and Pineco is often not at full health. Fire Blast also has a small chance to OHKO a full health Magnemite and easily 2HKOes Gloom. Hidden Power Water meanwhile is favored to OHKO Graveler, can do over 70% to Pupitar, can 3HKO Sudowoodo, and does more than Fire Blast to Dugtrio. Haze isn't used very often in battle or in the builder, but it's a neat emergency stop if you let Wigglytuff or Porygon boost too much and Explosion no longer does that much. Protect is IMO better than Pain Split because you will actually click the move, it helps with gathering Leftovers and if well-timed can prevent an opposing Weezing from trading with your own.
RestTalk is quite rare and you lose out on Explosion and coverage but it has a place. It means Weezing is far less susceptible to being worn down by Spikes and various hit-taking. It mostly will feature on stall teams with Curse or Haze as a stop to setup sweepers like Wigglytuff and Porygon if Shuckle is in a poor spot in addition to stopping the odd Meditate Primeape, and Curse can even let it be a win condition. Thunder can also be used on a very bulky balance team where the team is built in a way where keeping Weezing alive to handle Primeape is more important than Explosion or the second coverage move. Not superb and it's uncommon since the regular set tends to be much better, but it definitely has a place and is worth considering on specific teams.
Weezing is one of only a few Explosion users in GSC NU, and it grants Weezing a lot of valuable and flexible offensive and defensive utility. Offensively, Explosion grants Weezing a final stand to almost guarantee to take a Pokemon down with it when at low health, it can trade itself for an opposing Weezing to free the way for Primeape, it can eliminate Ninetales for a teammate like Magmar or Xatu, it can blow up Dugtrio when on a highly aggressive team to prevent it from wrecking house and to help out something like Chinchou, and it generally allows for aggressive plays if you really need something on the opponent's team gone to start making progress but may not necessarily have the defensive capability at that moment to break through without using Explosion. Defensively, Explosion is mainly useful for eliminating dangerous threats to your team, namely setup sweepers like Wigglytuff and Porygon, and it can also remove things like once again Weezing and Ninetales if they are super dangerous to your team. Weezing has a lot of good options in the last slot, usually Fire Blast or Hidden Power Water. Fire Blast is the most common and even just the threat of it makes Weezing a fairly alright switch to threaten out a spiking Pineco if your team doesn't have another way to force it out and it was given a free switch, as Fire Blast has a decent chance to OHKO Pineco from full health, and Pineco is often not at full health. Fire Blast also has a small chance to OHKO a full health Magnemite and easily 2HKOes Gloom. Hidden Power Water meanwhile is favored to OHKO Graveler, can do over 70% to Pupitar, can 3HKO Sudowoodo, and does more than Fire Blast to Dugtrio. Haze isn't used very often in battle or in the builder, but it's a neat emergency stop if you let Wigglytuff or Porygon boost too much and Explosion no longer does that much. Protect is IMO better than Pain Split because you will actually click the move, it helps with gathering Leftovers and if well-timed can prevent an opposing Weezing from trading with your own.
RestTalk is quite rare and you lose out on Explosion and coverage but it has a place. It means Weezing is far less susceptible to being worn down by Spikes and various hit-taking. It mostly will feature on stall teams with Curse or Haze as a stop to setup sweepers like Wigglytuff and Porygon if Shuckle is in a poor spot in addition to stopping the odd Meditate Primeape, and Curse can even let it be a win condition. Thunder can also be used on a very bulky balance team where the team is built in a way where keeping Weezing alive to handle Primeape is more important than Explosion or the second coverage move. Not superb and it's uncommon since the regular set tends to be much better, but it definitely has a place and is worth considering on specific teams.
The Fires
Growth Pass
Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Growth
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Grass / Double-Edge
- Baton Pass
RestTalk
Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Growth
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Grass / Double-Edge
- Baton Pass
RestTalk
Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Flareon is the slowest but has a strong argument for being the best of all the Fire types. It has incredible attacking stats and is quite beefy specially. While not the fastest, Flareon can still outspeed Weezing, Octillery, Wigglytuff, Pupitar, and more. Flareon very importantly is the only Pokemon in the tier that learns Growth and Baton Pass, which is an incredible niche. Flareon can opt to pose an immensely commanding immediate threat with the potential to Growth Pass, or it can completely ignore Growth as an option and act as an enormously strong mixed attacker with solid defensive utility, always keeping momentum and always demanding respect from the opponent. Flareon's Fire type is both a blessing and a curse, as it grants it a resistance to other Fire moves and a strong STAB Fire Blast with useful super effective coverage, but it means Flareon has weaknesses to Water, Rock, and Ground, all common attacking types, often leading to it being bullied by Dewgong and worsening a team's ability to switch into Octillery and Dugtrio. Flareon is also frail physically, being at worst 3HKOed and sometimes 2HKOed by most physical STABs. The low Speed can be an especially annoying issue when playing against offense, though playing offense does also mean Flareon will be harder to take hits from when it gets chances. I would say Flareon is definitely the best Fire type, providing a spread of unique traits, being incredibly strong, and having useful defensive ability.
Growth Pass is what Flareon is often known for, and for good reason. Passing a Growth boost from Flareon to another faster and higher health special attacker with better super effective coverage is a pretty easy recipe for mass destruction. The two most common recipients are Xatu and Surf/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Grass/Protect Dewgong, with the latter usually being more dangerous. Three attacks Dewgong can 3HKO everything in the tier besides other Dewgong, which it can beat anyways bar the Toxic + Encore set, and can 2HKO quite a lot too with its perfect coverage and solid power. Dewgong is also very bulky, backed even further by Protect providing Leftovers recovery and potential Explosion-blocking, often being able to take down multiple Pokemon with just one boost from Flareon. However, Dewgong can have major issues with Primeape, Hitmonlee, and even potentially Stantler, so Xatu is a great alternative recipient of a Growth boost from Flareon with its much higher Speed and STAB Psychic. Flareon can even choose to forgo an immediate pass if it's more advantageous to just stay in and attack, such as when the opponent has a Sunny Day Ninetales, using Pokemon that can't hurt it significantly to boost up and launch Fire Blasts. Flareon can even aim to use Baton Pass but still stay in an extra turn or two to use Fire Blast, maneuvering its way to safer positioning for the recipient. The last slot is mostly filler, but Hidden Power Grass tends to be the superior option to do massive damage to Octillery and Sudowoodo and OHKO Graveler and Pupitar, as all four of these can mess with a Growth Pass attempt in some way. Double-Edge can smack the odd Roar Ninetales or Haze Mantine and generally do solid damage to everything, but I find with a Growth Pass set it's usually better to just go for the pass, especially when factoring in recoil damage. Colossal threat of a Pokemon and definitely used less than it should be.
RestTalk Flareon takes a different path and gives itself some very useful longevity and status absorption, easily stomaching Xatu's Psychic, Ninetales' Toxic, Gloom's Stun Spore, and others rather than being hesitant to take any unnecessary chip and deathly afraid of status. This makes great use of Flareon's high Special Defense and Physical Attack, smacking checks like Octillery and Chinchou really hard while bullying Ninetales and checking Xatu, Magnemite, Sunny Day Magmar, and Gloom. Flareon's Double-Edge is exactly as strong as Wigglytuff's Double-Edge, which means it's a great move to use into about any neutral target and do a ton of damage. Flareon can seriously pressure Octillery, especially with Spikes up, making its Fire Blasts harder to handle. Even Pokemon like Stantler and Fearow that can potentially be used as an interrim switch to a potential Double-Edge in order to scare Flareon out still take over 40%. Really the only true checks to RestTalk Flareon are RestTalk Dewgong and the Rocks, but the Rocks can still be worn down by Fire Blasts over time, especially with Spikes up, poison from Weezing's Sludge Bomb, or even the help of Fearow chipping them down, though Dewgong can be tougher to break through since it's faster than Flareon and has RestTalk. RestTalk Flareon is a great set that I'm sure will continue on its current trajectory of seeing more and more use.
Growth Pass is what Flareon is often known for, and for good reason. Passing a Growth boost from Flareon to another faster and higher health special attacker with better super effective coverage is a pretty easy recipe for mass destruction. The two most common recipients are Xatu and Surf/Ice Beam/Hidden Power Grass/Protect Dewgong, with the latter usually being more dangerous. Three attacks Dewgong can 3HKO everything in the tier besides other Dewgong, which it can beat anyways bar the Toxic + Encore set, and can 2HKO quite a lot too with its perfect coverage and solid power. Dewgong is also very bulky, backed even further by Protect providing Leftovers recovery and potential Explosion-blocking, often being able to take down multiple Pokemon with just one boost from Flareon. However, Dewgong can have major issues with Primeape, Hitmonlee, and even potentially Stantler, so Xatu is a great alternative recipient of a Growth boost from Flareon with its much higher Speed and STAB Psychic. Flareon can even choose to forgo an immediate pass if it's more advantageous to just stay in and attack, such as when the opponent has a Sunny Day Ninetales, using Pokemon that can't hurt it significantly to boost up and launch Fire Blasts. Flareon can even aim to use Baton Pass but still stay in an extra turn or two to use Fire Blast, maneuvering its way to safer positioning for the recipient. The last slot is mostly filler, but Hidden Power Grass tends to be the superior option to do massive damage to Octillery and Sudowoodo and OHKO Graveler and Pupitar, as all four of these can mess with a Growth Pass attempt in some way. Double-Edge can smack the odd Roar Ninetales or Haze Mantine and generally do solid damage to everything, but I find with a Growth Pass set it's usually better to just go for the pass, especially when factoring in recoil damage. Colossal threat of a Pokemon and definitely used less than it should be.
RestTalk Flareon takes a different path and gives itself some very useful longevity and status absorption, easily stomaching Xatu's Psychic, Ninetales' Toxic, Gloom's Stun Spore, and others rather than being hesitant to take any unnecessary chip and deathly afraid of status. This makes great use of Flareon's high Special Defense and Physical Attack, smacking checks like Octillery and Chinchou really hard while bullying Ninetales and checking Xatu, Magnemite, Sunny Day Magmar, and Gloom. Flareon's Double-Edge is exactly as strong as Wigglytuff's Double-Edge, which means it's a great move to use into about any neutral target and do a ton of damage. Flareon can seriously pressure Octillery, especially with Spikes up, making its Fire Blasts harder to handle. Even Pokemon like Stantler and Fearow that can potentially be used as an interrim switch to a potential Double-Edge in order to scare Flareon out still take over 40%. Really the only true checks to RestTalk Flareon are RestTalk Dewgong and the Rocks, but the Rocks can still be worn down by Fire Blasts over time, especially with Spikes up, poison from Weezing's Sludge Bomb, or even the help of Fearow chipping them down, though Dewgong can be tougher to break through since it's faster than Flareon and has RestTalk. RestTalk Flareon is a great set that I'm sure will continue on its current trajectory of seeing more and more use.
RestTalk
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Toxic + Roar
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Roar
- Rest
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day / Toxic / Reflect
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Toxic + Roar
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Roar
- Rest
Ninetales is a pillar of balance with its phenomenal special bulk and huge Speed. Ninetales is the single best answer to Magmar and Weezing, and is also a great answer to Xatu, Magnemite, and Grass types. Ninetales being able to scare out Pineco is always nice, and it can threaten Porygon too. Ninetales' Speed is hugely underrated, Speed-tying Fearow and outrunning Xatu, Primeape, Stantler, and everything else slower. Ninetales is not the strongest, but its STAB Flamethrower still does a good chunk to most neutral targets, especially with Spikes down. Ninetales' Fire typing is fantastic for shutting down Magmar and giving it solid super effective coverage, but it means that as a defensive Pokemon, Ninetales is hugely susceptible to threats like Octillery, Graveler, Dugtrio, Flareon, Rapidash, and sometimes Dewgong. Octillery especially is a huge pain, completely blanking Ninetales from making progress itself. Ninetales is not completely helpless against these threats, but for the most part, it needs solid support to not be a detriment to teams. If able to accomodate for its weaknesses, though, Ninetales is a huge defensive boost to almost any team with some offensive potential.
RestTalk is Ninetales' bread-and-butter, giving it consistent healing across a game and allowing it to actually do things while asleep. Flamethrower and RestTalk is all Ninetales needs on a surface level basis, so the last slot goes to something that can help Ninetales patch up one of its weaknesses. Sunny Day is the most consistent option, powering up its Flamethrowers to 3HKO or 2HKO every Fire-neutral Pokemon in the tier. Sunny Day also weakens Water moves, allowing Pokemon like Stantler, Wigglytuff, and Gloom to switch into Octillery and Chinchou much easier, as well as completely bullying Dewgong. Toxic does decent chip to just about any Pokemon and can completely ruin the Rocks, Dugtrio, Porygon, Kingler, and non-RestTalk Primeape. However, losing Toxic means Ninetales is vulnerable to Dewgong and generally has much lower offensive output. As a result of Ninetales' vulnerability to RestTalk Flareon and Rapidash in addition to its weakness to Earthquakes from the likes of Stantler and Dugtrio, Reflect is a good option to make it easier for teammates like Octillery to handle these threats.
Roar Ninetales is much rarer and generally for good reason; Ninetales lacking Sleep Talk makes it much worse as a standalone defensive Pokemon and even more reliant on support. Usually, dropping Sleep Talk isn't really worth it, but Roar does have some good bonuses. Importantly, it completely shuts down most Growth Pass Flareons, since they tend to use Hidden Power Grass instead of Double-Edge. Roar also makes Ninetales decent at preventing setup from Curse users like Wigglytuff and Porygon, though there is a huge threat of being paralyzed before being able to use Roar. Lastly, Roar shuffles Spikes damage onto the opponent, potentially racking up huge chip across the opponent's team, especially if there are some poisoned Pokemon. However, using Sunny Day on a RestTalk set tends to be better for this purpose, since any one wrong prediction could lead to the opponent's Octillery or Dewgong healing to full health. Alright set but extremely specific and not too special beyond being the only phazer in the tier.
RestTalk is Ninetales' bread-and-butter, giving it consistent healing across a game and allowing it to actually do things while asleep. Flamethrower and RestTalk is all Ninetales needs on a surface level basis, so the last slot goes to something that can help Ninetales patch up one of its weaknesses. Sunny Day is the most consistent option, powering up its Flamethrowers to 3HKO or 2HKO every Fire-neutral Pokemon in the tier. Sunny Day also weakens Water moves, allowing Pokemon like Stantler, Wigglytuff, and Gloom to switch into Octillery and Chinchou much easier, as well as completely bullying Dewgong. Toxic does decent chip to just about any Pokemon and can completely ruin the Rocks, Dugtrio, Porygon, Kingler, and non-RestTalk Primeape. However, losing Toxic means Ninetales is vulnerable to Dewgong and generally has much lower offensive output. As a result of Ninetales' vulnerability to RestTalk Flareon and Rapidash in addition to its weakness to Earthquakes from the likes of Stantler and Dugtrio, Reflect is a good option to make it easier for teammates like Octillery to handle these threats.
Roar Ninetales is much rarer and generally for good reason; Ninetales lacking Sleep Talk makes it much worse as a standalone defensive Pokemon and even more reliant on support. Usually, dropping Sleep Talk isn't really worth it, but Roar does have some good bonuses. Importantly, it completely shuts down most Growth Pass Flareons, since they tend to use Hidden Power Grass instead of Double-Edge. Roar also makes Ninetales decent at preventing setup from Curse users like Wigglytuff and Porygon, though there is a huge threat of being paralyzed before being able to use Roar. Lastly, Roar shuffles Spikes damage onto the opponent, potentially racking up huge chip across the opponent's team, especially if there are some poisoned Pokemon. However, using Sunny Day on a RestTalk set tends to be better for this purpose, since any one wrong prediction could lead to the opponent's Octillery or Dewgong healing to full health. Alright set but extremely specific and not too special beyond being the only phazer in the tier.
All-Out Attacker
Magmar @ Leftovers / No Item / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Punch / Hidden Power Grass
- Cross Chop
- Sunny Day / Hidden Power Ground / Thief
Magmar @ Leftovers / No Item / Miracle Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Punch / Hidden Power Grass
- Cross Chop
- Sunny Day / Hidden Power Ground / Thief
Magmar is one of the most powerful wallbreakers in the tier with its phenomenal attacking stats, great coverage, and deadly Fire Blast. Magmar's Fire Blast is the single strongest special attack in the tier, 2HKOing all but the bulkiest neutral targets. Magmar also has Thunder Punch, which 3HKOes Octillery and is a solid 100% accurate hit against Flying types. Magmar can use Hidden power Grass instead to OHKO Graveler and Pupitar and do solid damage to Sudowoodo and Chinchou, and it removes prediction between using Thunder Punch on Octillery or Fire Blast on Dugtrio. However, it reduces Magmar's DVs and means Magmar only has Fire Blast as a tool against Flying types, which can cause misses or PP issues. Cross Chop is another main differentiating factor between Magmar and the other Fires, 3HKOing Sudowoodo and Dewgong and smacking grounded Normal types harder than Fire Blast. Cross Chop even has an increased critical hit rate, potentially breaking through a Stantler, Wigglytuff, or Porygon that boosted with Curse multiple times or even just OHKOing them without taking an attack. Sunny Day is the most common last move, powering up Fire Blast to ludicrous heights and reducing the damage of Surf from opposing Octillery, Dewgong, and Chinchou as well as reducing Thunder accuracy. Fire Blast notably turns the Dewgong matchup from risky to Magmar almost always directly beating it, with Surf only 4HKOing and Fire Blast 2HKOing back under Sun. Hidden Power Ground can be used to 3HKO Chinchou, Flareon, Rapidash, and other Magmar and chip Ninetales. Thief allows Magmar to steal Leftovers from an opposing Ninetales or Octillery that may otherwise be difficult to deal with, improving the offensive capability of itself and its teammates, though it means Magmar doesn't have Leftovers when switching in and has to spend a turn using Thief instead of attacking. Magmar can even use Miracle Berry instead of Leftovers to take a Stun Spore from Gloom, Thunder Wave from Porygon, or Thunder paralysis from Weezing or Magnemite without deeply regretting it, though not having Leftovers is a huge detriment. However, despite its amazing offensive capability, Magmar does have one true wall, and that is Ninetales. Ninetales is faster, has huge bulk and RestTalk, is almost never 3HKOed by even Hidden Power Ground, and can use Toxic on Magmar or just spam Flamethrowers to wear it down. Additionally, Magmar doesn't necessarily struggle with Octillery, Dewgong, and Chinchou, but it doesn't really help a team's ability to handle them defensively. Since Magmar often uses Sunny Day, it also will usually struggle with Flareon and Rapidash, too. Magmar also doesn't use RestTalk and is relatively frail physically, so entry can be hard to gain and it can be susceptible to Dugtrio and other physical attackers like Stantler, Fearow, and Sudowoodo. Magmar has some serious flaws, made worse by its competition with the other Fires, but its offensive potential is extremely high and it's close to impossible to switch into safely without a Fire of your own, so it's absolutely worth using.
RestTalk
Rapidash @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Rapidash @ Leftovers
Ability: No Ability
- Fire Blast
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Rapidash is usually considered the worst of the Fires for its sometimes-unsatisfying middle ground of bulk and power between Ninetales and Flareon, but it's an inherently good Pokemon just hampered by competition. Some even prefer Rapidash over the other Fires, so this aspect can go away. Rapidash is the fastest of the Fires, even outrunning Fearow unlike Ninetales which only Speed ties. Rapidash is not as bulky as Ninetales, and it's not as strong as RestTalk Flareon, leading to it sometimes struggling with things like breaking Octillery or switching into Weezing or Xatu, but it's still generally good enough to do the job on offensive teams. Spikes can make up for the lack of power when compared to Flareon, allowing a team to benefit from Rapidash's much greater Speed compared to Flareon. Rapidash can even function as a check to Primeape and Fearow due to its Speed, RestTalk, decently strong Fire Blast, and solid bulk. There's not too much special with Rapidash, it's just a good Pokemon with high Speed and decent offensive capability but some serious competition issues.