Announcement National Dex Tournament Feedback Thread - 2023

[Steorra]

Keeping things casual this year since there's not a whole lot to discuss. Some major points from Discord when it initially came up that gained some traction:

- NDWC being earlier than this year. This year's times for reference:

- Custom Avatar prize being moved from Circuit Playoffs to NDWC.
- Invitational only being hosted when being backed by a prize pool.
- Ammendment of SS NDOU in the circuit.

Important links:
National Dex Tournament Feedback 2022
National Dex Circuit 2023

Reminder this isn't locked to just circuit tournaments and can be unofficial tournaments like invitationals or Team Tournaments.

Discuss away!

 

[Steorra]

tagging playoff people for input
ChrisPBacon Fabriisse Xurkiyee Latiasboy Lameflame Kayzn hi.naming is hard seth entrocefalo ezra Weaselfie Soul king0 velvet peap Kyo LBN

 

[seth]

- wc earlier
-make ss tour type a/b, add another type c, or remove ss outright. Having one small ss tour feels like a weird middle ground
- keep ca as is 2 team tours getting one while no indiv gets one is lame (unless I win then idc do whatever)

 

[Steorra]

for the record the CA move would only be in effect from 2024 onwards, 2023 Playoffs still has its Custom Avatar Prize.

Moreover I'd only consider the move if it gets ample support.

 

[sealoo]

With 2023 coming to a close, I felt the circuit schedule and schedule as a whole were mostly good, although there are a few minor things I'd like to see added/altered personally.

NDWC Being Earlier
100% agreed, the deadzone between NDPL and NDWC is currently almost 6 months without much in between bar SSNL (in summer there is NDLT at least, which is more engaging) I'd propose signups are about a month earlier, so sometime in early March for player signups, somewhere around Sunday March 3rd or so tentatively.

Circuit Playoffs CA -> NDWC
I'd keep the CA with Circuit upon further thought, as mentioned above, the idea of a no CA for any individuals is kinda worrisome. The saturation of tour players drawn in by a CA for NDWC could be viewed as a positive or negative which is going to vary based on individual philosophy. I noticed how NDWC III felt more welcoming for mainers as a whole which could be something important to preserve in one of our major two team tours. On the other hand, it would also help struggling regions who aren't able to field an entirely quality roster and forces managers to outsource themselves to find players to fill slots. But yeah, I'd keep it w/ circuit.

Invitational Necessitating Prize Pool
Definitely disagree w/ this one, invitationals are a v cool concept and I was pretty disappointed we didn't have one this year. A prize would be cool, but I think it isn't needed in order to have a fun mini-tour somewhere in the post-NDWC to pre-NDLT timeframe. I think you'll still get an adequate amount of players looking to compete even without a prize.

SS NDOU
I don't feel too strongly about this topic, so I'm really fine with whatever in regards to this.

Other Thoughts

Rigged Tour
Definitely keep this, fun concept and I enjoyed watching it a lot.

Trios Tour
No bias of course, I'd love another Trios tour (same time, Jan-Feb)

Ghosting Tour
Fun concept, would be cool if we could somehow fit it but takes less priority than the 2 above

Here's to a good 2024 of natting our dexxes

 

[ChrisPBacon]

Please dont move the ca - I think with a community like natdex most people are aware with who wins circuit which sorta lowers the prestige. I'd say the main reason people wanna win circuit is for the personal satisfaction and I feel the long-term attachment to a custom is more motivating than a ribbon - at least from the perspective of someone who regularly plays the tier and is looking for something out of it.

I think everything else in circuit is fine, if people are planning invitationals for ss then it seems like keeping the ss tour as a type c mostly for fun to not detract much from the main tier.

Invitationals I would highly prioritise a cash prize if available, as someone who won the invitational last gen it felt super unsatisfying given most ppl didn't try + like a third of the games were being decided by activity, though I don't have the means to donate atm so I can't rly tell ppl how they wanna run the tour otherwise.

Moving wc forward seems like a good idea, given

and

I think it'd be cool to move wc say a month/month and a half earlier that way we can fit maybe a forum tour/inv in the downtime between team tournaments

 

[Isza]

Invitational Necessitating Prize Pool
Definitely disagree w/ this one, invitationals are a v cool concept and I was pretty disappointed we didn't have one this year. A prize would be cool, but I think it isn't needed in order to have a fun mini-tour somewhere in the post-NDWC to pre-NDLT timeframe. I think you'll still get an adequate amount of players looking to compete even without a prize.

I'll have to disagree with you here as a past participant. As someone who doesn't do individuals for natdex normally invitational had my interest due to a cash prize, but ended up not having any. This resulted in me trolling my r1 set bringing mono flying g3 because there was no incentive for effort. Alot of games also went to activity so I'm sure past participants can agree. An invitational showcases the best of the best and there should be some kind of reward for it.

-Don't mess with circuits CA, they deserve it.

-Move WC Earlier.(a month seems alright)

-Don't have an opinion on anything else.

 

[Smudge]

Custom for NDWC is hype, Doubles made the same decision for this year to remove it from the circuit playoffs. Turnout was significantly increased and the event was made more competitive for it, so I strongly support this decision. If you want each region to be as competitive as reasonably possible, this is the best way to encourage it.

I would also like to see Doubles included in this edition of the World Cup. Perhaps this is a bit early and it should be reserved for a potential format discussion thread but I'd like to strike while the iron is hot, since it's (surprisingly) been a topic of discussion in the Discord lately.
Looking at each region, there is at least 2 strong players from each imo, so I don't think there's anything to worry about there.

There's the issue of number of slots with this potential addition, but I'm rather partial to having odd-numbered slots to avoid tiebreak weeks. They can really make tours overstay their welcome, and it's hard to cut the stuff that's already there I think.

 

[LBN]

I domt have much to add here, consider my opinion a parrot of iszas

 

[velvet]

Im sorta iffy on the switch of ca from circuit moving towards to ndwc because removing ca from circuit means you’re removing something the individuals looked forward to and worked hard for each year (the ribbon is a welcomed edition though ngl). Though, i will not deny the popularity ndwc has gotten this year enough for a ca to be in consideration (didn’t participate in this but heard great things). I’m not sure if banners are given to WCs as PLs are, but perhaps in the future banners could be given to those types of tours as they’re just as popular as PLs.

wc moved earlier

 

[hidin]

dont mind WC timing but would be ok with whatever happens
keep CA for circuit; dont give WC a ca
invitational should have some kind of prize
im ok with SS tours being around, should be kept b/c they got all the resources + a good amount of ppl who are willing to play

i would much rather give a CA to someone who spent an entire season to win a indiv tour and get in and win circuit playoffs than give it to a guy who got carried by his teammates in a team tour in general. do not move the circuit CA

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

Keeping things casual this year since there's not a whole lot to discuss. Some major points from Discord when it initially came up that gained some traction:

- NDWC being earlier than this year. This year's times for reference:
View attachment 577043

- Custom Avatar prize being moved from Circuit Playoffs to NDWC.
- Invitational only being hosted when being backed by a prize pool.
- Ammendment of SS NDOU in the circuit.

I think the start time for NDWC is fine, but I would not object to it being held earlier. As for CAs, why not request for a third one? NatDex is one of the most popular formats on Smogon and people crying about how it is not a 'real' metagame should probably buy a kettle and look at their reflection with it. SS NDOU tours should definitely stay until gen 10 comes around, then we can discuss what to do with our old gens.

 

[Steorra]

- Custom Avatar prize remains to PL and Circuit Playoffs.
- Individual tournaments are always welcomed to be hosted by volunteers, including invitationals with a cash prize on the host to find.

Final Result:

Circuit Tournaments
[Type A Double Elim] National Dex Winter Seasonal - Signups on January 7

[Type C Single Elim] SS National Dex Cup - Signups on February 18

National Dex Ladder Tournament IV
Cycle 1 - Signups go up June 2
Cycle 2 - Signups go up June 9
Cycle 3 - Signups go up June 16
Cycle 4 - Signups go up June 23
[Type A] Playoffs - June 30th

[Type A Double Elim] National Dex Summer Seasonal - Signups go up August 4

[Type B] National Dex Last Chance - Signups go up October 6

National Dex Circuit Playoffs - December 1


Team Tournaments
National Dex World Cup III
~ Manager signups go up March 17
~ Player signups go up March 10
National Dex Premier League IV
~ Manager Signups go up August 11
~ Player Signups go up August 18

Will be publishing this in a few days officially pending no pushback, also if you want any points not addressed addressed feel free to tag me in the server

 

[Steorra]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-tournament-schedule-2024.3733458/