Metagame Type Split (May LCotM!)

[Neji-4K]

Hey.
I've tested with meta and I had a probrem with the burn. The problem is : I've used a burn Valiant with Spirit Break, which supposed to be special if I've understood this meta well, and the power of my move was still divided by 2 when I was burn, even if this is supposed to be special. I was at +2 and according to the Calculator, I should have nearly OHKO the Alomomola but I've done only about 50% of his life. Is this expected or this is a bug ?

+2 4 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Spirit Break vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 457-538 (85.5 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
But I've done only 49 %.

The most likely reason for this is the burn. More specifically, moves that are originally physical will be affected by burn even though they are burned.

 

[Roaring Moonlight]

Thanks.

 

[applesaucething]

FYI use Dragon Hammer instead of Dragon Pulse on Raging Bolt

It's got 5 more BP and more PP, so there's no downside to using it

There is some downside in that it is contact.

 

[applesaucething]

The most likely reason for this is the burn. More specifically, moves that are originally physical will be affected by burn even though they are burned.

I'm pretty sure they aren't, opposing burned darkrai's Knock did 37% to my own
252 SpA Darkrai Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 89-105 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
matches up with the calc here

 

[applesaucething]

+2 4 SpA Quark Drive Iron Valiant Spirit Break vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 457-538 (85.5 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
But I've done only 49 %.

Were you booster special attack? If not, that may be the problem here, you put booster special in the calc, their Alomomola might have also been more specially invested to better tank its super effective hits.

 

[demirab1]

the power of my move was still divided by 2 when I was burn, even if this is supposed to be special.

moves that are originally physical will be affected by burn

No such thing is happening, here's a quick test I ran to be sure:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2115855143-uj8toxp5xca4sgtf95l0yxd9oifnnz2pw

(I'm #3, gz Clas and Lost Glory for breaking 1300!)

TLDR: It's day 1 but I gotta say, the meta's been stable and healthy (for gen 9 standards). You can reasonably prep for all threats as balance, and I've run into some rlly creative tech on ladder. Props for the idea and the initial banlist :) here are my best teams:

pao balance (mostly used this one)
https://pokepast.es/4c214c6d4d1ea589

wp kyu-b ho
https://pokepast.es/ec87221a8ba30fb8

and here are some replays (pao team only, sorry):
vs standard sun: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2115470513
vs LO apple BO: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2115611632?p2
vs stall: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2115659142?p2
vs Uberless rain: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2115749907

-----

Now, about the meta itself. I recognized some patterns:

Fighting/Ghost attackers: (cb if you're trolling)
Spdef-boosting Dragon types: (probably more)
Mixed wallbreakers: ( these are uncommon)
Water types rlly hurt: :basculegion-female: ( Uberless proposed a specs set)
Fighting/Normal attackers (can't reliably hurt ghosts):

Several groups of mons do the same thing with small differences like a move, typing, base stats. There are direct adaptations to these patterns in the meta. People are running Water Absorb Clodsire on stall for rain counterplay, and other water immunity or quad resists are common. I've been running Colbur Glowking for blanket checking Volcarona and mixed Fighting types with great success. There are 2 options for reliably checking cm Dragon types and powerful Knock users: spdef Unaware Clef on stall, which so far has always run a support set; and spdef Tink on balance, which can run a variety of sets depending on its team. Note the synergy between Pickpocket and Knock being a special move.

+ ( | )

I can't think of a good reason not to run this core on every balance team. Once paired with a good spdef backbone (there's a much larger selection of viable mons here), the amount of time this buys you is insane. Lando's special bulk for checking Raging Bolt, ability to run rocky helm, and Scorching Sands are reasons not to run Gliscor on balance.

-----

My views on other team archetypes broadly and on potential tiering action:

Stall is fine, definitely not broken or anything. On the contrary, playing as stall is challenging because you can't reasonably prep for all threats defensively. Gliscor is significantly frailer than Lando, and given enough time paralysis has no counterplay. Generally Tera as a mechanic buffs offense more than it buffs defense, and I don't think this format is an exception. Those who struggle to break stall should review their replays and look for an exploitable pattern, then make adaptations accordingly (and bring taunt).

BO isn't very good I think. I see people running Mola + some spdef mon as backbone. This and other things like Gholdengo hazard stack would be fine, but with the rain spam on the ladder in itself AND said rain spam forcing Water Absorb on teams, I don't think it wise to load this just yet.

HO is in a very good place thanks to some high BST additions. Mons like Zacian, Kyu-b, Spectrier are fat enough to set up consistently or take a boosted hit in a pinch. Sun and rain are extremely strong archetypes ... tbh I don't think any of this needs to be nerfed yet. I don't feel strongly about sun and rain either way. Let a few days pass, then hold a vote or a suspect on Damp Rock IMO. I'll be keeping an eye on Zacian in particular due to it uniquely running Tera Blast without necessarily being the dedicated tera user.

 

[CJMamba24]

Darkrai needs to go ASAP! It literally breaks the game with its BS Sucker Punch and Knock Off. One Nasty Plot and nothing can stop it. Give it Life Orb and nothing survives. How is it not banned already?

 

[kromydas]

Darkrai needs to go ASAP! It literally breaks the game with its BS Sucker Punch and Knock Off. One Nasty Plot and nothing can stop it. Give it Life Orb and nothing survives. How is it not banned already?

not an expert but a single sash basically kills it right? (as in supereffective).

 

[Glory]

I've played quite a bit so I'm gonna share some teams and thoughts on the meta.
Darkrai Rain

This team has been really good so far. Raging Bolt has been a rain staple since its introduction, and is just as effective in Type Split as anywhere else, and is arguably even better. Raging Bolt being Tera Fairy is very important on this team—it will be your Tera in more than 80% of your games—as it really improves your counterplay against Dragapult, Walking Wake, Dragonite, and Iron Valiant. I think Kingdra is better than Basculegion-F because it has access to Weather Ball and the typing means that it can threaten an OHKO on Walking Wake and Raging Bolt while being unafraid Thunderclap or Sucker Punch; Timid is necessary outrun Booster Energy Iron Valiant. Choice Band Dragonite is just a stupidly strong breaker with perfect accuracy Hurricanes while still having a ton of defensive utility due to its typing, Multiscale, and Extreme Speed. Iron Treads is great in the hazard game while checking Raging Bolt, Dragonite, and fast threats like Darkrai; the bulk allows it to survive two Choice Band Shadow Balls from Dragapult as well as +2 Darkrai Sucker Punch after Stealth Rock damage. Darkrai takes advantage of rain to use Thunder to OHKO Alomomola and do massive damage to Corviknight and Primarina, while Tera Electric boosts Thunder's power enough to 2HKO physically defensive Clefable. Taunt is used to prevent Blissey and Clodsire from recovering off its hits. You could run Life Orb to have a chance to 2HKO even specially defensive Clefable and boost Knock Off's damage, but I find that the longevity of Expert Belt (or even Magnet) is preferred.

Specs Raging Bolt Bulky Offense

This is a pretty decent bulky offense built around Specs Raging Bolt which is a very threatening wallbreaker. The double fairy offensive combination of Iron Valiant and Primarina is able to work together to overwhelm each others checks more efficiently. Primarina can run an alternative set of Surf, Moonblast, Psychic Noise, and Calm Mind with Torrent if Water Absorb Clodsire is an issue. Encore on Iron Valiant is important to make up for the poor Calm Mind Clefable matchup, but Iron Head can be used instead of Brave Bird on Corviknight for this purpose. Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic on Slowking-G but will result in a worse Primarina matchup.

Zekrom Sand

I wanted to try something with Excadrill, and specially defensive Hippowdown checks a few of the common threats while being quite good into opposing weather (Pelipper doesn't even 2HKO with Surf without rain.) Dragapult is a great pivot that's hard for a lot of teams to handle in the long term, and it checks a lot of the big threats by virtue of its speed and power. Specially defensive Clefable checks Darkrai, Iron Valiant, and the majority of special attacking dragons, and can remove items and pass Wish to help its offensive teammates stay healthy. Zekrom is an absolutely terrifying breaker that threatens the hell out of many defensive staples while being extremely bulky for such a powerful mon. Skarmory rounds out the team by providing Spikes and phazing while performing its traditional walling duties.
Kyurem or Kyurem-B can be used in place of Zekrom for a better matchup against Gliscor and Landorus-T. Also stop using DD Kyu-B, just run Freeze Dry, Ice Beam, Fusion Bolt, and then whatever you want as the last move (I like Focus Blast.)

Band Great Tusk Sun

Sun took a massive hit with how Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire were gutted, leaving Great Tusk as the only good physical abuser of sun, and it too is in a worse state due to losing Ice Spinner. Torkoal outspeeds minimum speed Slowking-G so it can chunk it with EQ before Chilly Reception. Great Tusk needs to run Head Smash if it wants to brute force its way through Gliscor and Landorus-T, with Stone Edge for whenever you need to hit a Flying-type like Enamorus or Dragonite without taking massive recoil. Tera Electric Volcarona can force its way through Primarina and Heatran, but you could run Tera Dragon and drop Morning Sun for Tera Blast. Mixed attacking Iron Treads is able to do big damage to the typical switch-ins of Great Tusk, Gliscor, and Landorus-T with Ice Spinner, while also revenge killing Dragonite after some chip damage. Raging Bolt is Tera Flying because the team's only Ground-type switch-in is the frail Enamorus.

Three of these teams have Raging Bolt and the other has Zekrom. This wasn't intentional but it is funny.

Metagame Thoughts
The meta is certainly quite offensive at the moment, though that's not necessarily bad. There's a bunch of crazy threats like Darkrai, Walking Wake, Volcarona, and Zekrom. Weather teams are very powerful with little to consistently stand in their way. Something worth noting is that most of the busted threats are special attackers, as they are far better off than physical attackers by default due to the metagame's central mechanic. A lot of physical attackers lack the important coverage they had to deal with the defensive Pokemon, while most special attackers are either untouched or improved (poor Gholdengo though.)


Tera is stupid. It's an uncompetitive mess of a mechanic that pushes so many mons far over the line. I could probably right an entire essay about how broken Tera is but I trust that the council is smart enough to recognize how broken it is and take action.


This mon is pretty crazy. Knock Off and Ice Beam are the only moves that are really crucial for it to run on every set, and the last two moves have immense flexibility, drastically changing what it's capable of. Options include but are not limited to: Nasty Plot, Sucker Punch, Taunt, Thunder, Psyshock, Substitute, Trick, and Tera Blast Fairy. But the thing is, I honestly don't think it's banworthy because most of these options don't fundamentally change how you should deal with it. Its powerful Sucker Punch keeps things like rain in check, and with the exception of Thunder on rain teams, it doesn't really threaten Pokemon like Primarina and Clefable much at all, and these are great Pokemon so you should be using them anyway.


Oh boy Clef is something else. Specially defensive Clefable checks a ton of different really powerful attackers, most notably being the most consistent check to Darkrai, though it is pressured a ton by Tera Electric Thunder. With Moonblast, Knock Off, and Moonlight it has a flexible final move slot that can be tailored to whatever is needed of it, I'm partial to Encore to beat Calm Mind users, but Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave are also great options.


Please ban this thing. The only consistent checks are Primarina, Blissey, and Water Absorb Clodsire, and of those only Primarina is a splashable option. Not to mention Tera Water with either Sun or Rain outright 2HKOing both Blissey and Primarina. Stupid mon.


I really like how Valiant feels in the meta right now. It's a powerful option for handling the other offensive threats with its great speed and high power, and it doesn't feel too overbearing on its own. I don't think SD sets are very good, but mixed or Calm Mind booster energy sets are very potent, and Specs is a terrifying breaker. The quadruple Dark-type resistance also means it's one of the best revenge killers of Darkrai (only really outperformed by Zacian and Zamazenta due to them not relying on a single-use item for their speed advantage.)


Broken. Tera roulette with Dragon, Electric, and Water. Please ban this stupid fucking this.


Dragonite is pretty much the only really good physical attacker that I would say improved over how it is in standard play (Dragapult is more of a sidegrade than improvement.) It lost physical Fire/Thunder Punch but that's honestly small compared to gaining Hurricane. It's incredible powerful (and incredibly frustrating without rain) and has near perfect coverage with Earthquake so its old issues of 4MSS aren't present anymore.

 

[competitiveZero]

I've had a similar experience with darkrai, I need to review this meta a bit more but it is my number 1 concern
Albeit I fear other threats may become scary without darkrai to check them, so we'll be watching those mons too

[LOL accidentally deleted the quote box]

 

[competitiveZero]

Figured I should be transparent with what pokemon I think are or could be problematic

Number 1 this pokemon has been discussed quite a bit as an unhealthy and dominant force in the meta, and it's not hard to see why, it's typing has been converted to special, Giving it access to fire off sucker punch and knock off(2 extremely powerful and at times controversial moves) from its 135 base special attack, this in conjunction with its incredible coverage, most noteably ice beam and thunder, make darkrai extremely easy to fit on all sorts of teams, another boon for darkrai is its amazing base 125 speed tier, while this speed is not exactly unmatched it is extremely impressive.

Number 2 this moth is no stranger to controversy and the type split meta is no different, gaining access to wild charge(among other less noteably coverage), however Volcarona essentially lost access to its bug type moves, not that it really cares as with the right Tera Volcarona still seems to steal many games.

Number 3 I'm genuinely surprised I haven't seen more discussion around this mon, it didn't gain much from the types returning to their pre-gen4 state but it did gain access to a new priority move, Vacuum wave this move is essentially mach punch, a move Scizor has imo longed for for years
The addition of fighting type priority to scizors already impressive skillset allows this pokemon to spiral out of control very easily, with many of OUs premier fire types nerfed by either virtue of being a physical attacker, or losing their secondary stab little stands in the way of this dangerous insect.

Number 3 I believe this pokemon to be the best stand-in for rain as imo rain is the most dominant weather, with moves like aqua jet becoming special. I don't really have much to say about this one, just putting it out there that I have my eye on the strategy.

Number 4 "but it lost access to its stab" I hear you say, well simply put zacien hardly cares. With its absolutely absurd speed tier and naturally broken ability and high attack, in tandem with nearly infinite coverage. This pokemon has little trouble cleaving through the metagame even without its fairy stab.

Number 5 this one isn't concerning because the pokemon itself is too powerful, although it's stabs arr impressive. No the concern here is with the legality of the light clay item from what I've this far seen, this pokemon is able to set up aurora veil, allowing a set up sweeper of her choice to easily set up and cleave through teams not prepared for this frankly uncompetitive strategy.

And finally number 6
I haven't seen all that much from it but I am watching it carefully as people have expressed concern.

Ty for possibly reading my silly little thoughts<3

 

[Clas]

quick thoughts while i have time, is gonna be super short

• mixed bag, on one hand its easy to answer, on the other it feels like kingambit but better bc its good in the early game too
• ban asap please its literally stronger than standard play bc of special flip turn + knock
• please ban ty, fire/dragon slams the whole tier bar primarina which doesnt check it without encore
• damp rock should 100% go but otherwise its in a good position
• sun is weird? on one hand beyond broken, on the other hand its the worst weather ive ever seen. id keep an eye on it
• yeah people are overrating this, its decently easy to answer. booster speed is generally sd but is SOMETIMES mixed/cm (booster cm is easy to beat ngl), no booster is mixed or specs always so you generally can use your special wall. it also can only use one stab on each offensive side so its pretty easy to answer. ive had success answering it with glowking, tusk, prim, zapdos etc etc. as long as you use your brain you should be good
• right this mon is easily top 5, it does so much rn. need a spdef wall? its got u. stallbreaker? perishpool or encorepool. cm mon? got u here! specs breaker? yep, even has its flip turn boosted! 9/10 times slapping on primarina is doing you wonders and the 1/10 of times are when its on a bad team
• fraud
• fraud
• fraud
• a bit less fraud
• fraud
• great fraud (its still great)
• greater fraud (its still okay)
• great (please stop using scorching sands)
• laughs in tera ice blizzard
• ears hurt oww (walled by ghost type)
• 
  people are overcomplaining, its not broken and its rather that the already broken mons make it feel broken.
• lots of room for development, boots pivot is good, dd is fraud, specs is good, sub is great
• fun meta rn ngl, solid 8.5/10

in summary ban wake darkrai volcarona kyurem damp rock, keep terastallization, meta is good

 

[KaenSoul]

Number 4 "but it lost access to its stab" I hear you say, well simply put zacien hardly cares. With its absolutely absurd speed tier and naturally broken ability and high attack, in tandem with nearly infinite coverage. This pokemon has little trouble cleaving through the metagame even without its fairy stab.

It doesnt really have infinite coverage unless you go mixed (and at that point just use IV), it really wants to burn your tera to be able to touch Ghost/Poison/Flying types as your coverage is limited to CC, Iron Head, Air Slash, Poison Jab and Body Slam. It is just decent anti offense mon because of its speed and Iron Valiant already does that while being harder to check defensively.

 

[competitiveZero]

I do think zacien has all the coverage it will traditionally need to do its job without needing to go mixed
It's typing also clears vals defensively and I'm yet to see it rely on Tera as much as valiant let alone more, that being said this metas still new and none of my takes were concrete fact, simply observations

 

[Cuddly]

Glaceon I feel like definitely has a niche. It has the strongest Ice Shard and Triple Axel in the game due to all Ice type attacks being Special. Additionally it can go against a number of threats in the current Metagame. It can OHKO Dragapult with Ice Shards 12.5% of the time. It always threatens Gliscor, Great Tusk, and Landorus-T with its Ice moves and has Freeze Dry for Tera Water. It can straight up OHKO Corviknight with Triple Axel with Choice Specs or a Calm Mind boost. It can even beat Defensive Gholdengo as Triple Axel can 2HKO it.

In many respects it's very much like Kyurem actually. It hits really with special attacking Ice moves, with Kyurem having much better stats, dual STAB, and more. Glaceon isn't entirely outclassed however. Unlike Kyurem who needs Loaded Dice to function with Icicle Spear, Glaceon has Triple Axel meaning it can utilize Leftovers, Boots, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, etc. Additionally, as mentioned Glaceon has Ice Shards as a means of really strong priority. Priority that can't be played around with by using status moves like Sucker Punch and Thunderclap otherwise would. Glaceon also has options too. It has Calm Mind, something Kyurem lacks, Wish being a form of recovery, and other niche options like Trailblaze and Stored Power.

Here is a few sets I made.
Glaceon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Water/Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
- Triple Axel
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry
- Tera Blast/Water Pulse
Choice Specs Glaceon is crazy powerful. It has the capability to 2HKO even resists like Defensive Gholdengo with Triple Axel alone. The 244 Spe is enough speed to outspeed uninvested Gliscor which allows it to usually OHKO with any Ice move, Freeze-Drying for potential Water Tera. Rest is dumped into SpA and also SpD as no HP investment reduces Stealth Rock damage. You can choose between Tera Blast Fire to beat Steel types that are more specially bulky, Tera Blast Water to have perfect coverage with Freeze Dry while being able to hit Fire types, or regular Water Pulse if you want to use Tera Blast on something else.
Some Calcs
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 175-207 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- approx. 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 96-116 (25.3 - 30.6%) -- approx. 4HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 228-270 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- approx. 36.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyurem Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 160-190 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- approx. 84.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 218-258 (67.4 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 272-324 (85.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Iron Valiant: 181-214 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 118-139 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 356-422 (82 - 97.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 144-171 (44.8 - 53.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 222-264 (64.5 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Garganacl: 260-309 (64.3 - 76.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Garganacl: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Water Glaceon Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Heatran: 306-362 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
ok I think you get the point.
The other sets are Calm Mind variants:
Glaceon @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Water/Psychic/Steel
EVs: 240 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Freeze-Dry/Triple Axel/Ice Shard
- Chilling Water/Stored Power
and
Glaceon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Water/Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Shard
- Triple Axel/Freeze-Dry
- Tera Blast
Both versions use Calm Mind in bulky and offensive sets. The Bulk set has reliable recovery to keep itself healthy, along with Leftovers. With Snow support, it is actually pretty hard to take down without really super effective attacks. For reference;
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 220+ Def Glaceon in Snow: 182-216 (54.9 - 65.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Ice Body recovery and Leftovers recovery
The fact that an Ice type can potentially survive 2 STAB Close Combats from Iron Valiant just says a lot.
The defensive variant has issues with selecting what moves it wants as Glaceon does have plenty of pretty valuable moves. Freeze-Dry as a regular STAB to beat Waters, Triple Axel which was shown to annihilate even bulky resists at x1.5, Ice Shard for priority, Chilling Water as a Water option that also helps your physical bulk too, and Stored Power to power through Unaware Pokemon. The EVs are there so Glaceon can outspeed Skarmory. HP and Def are nearly maxed out, HP of course reducing Stealth Rock damage and Def being max but made even for Snow boost. Rest is dumped into SpD because why not?
The offensive variant has the same EVs as Specs set, but utilizing Calm Mind now. Its also similar, but you have to choose a bit more between raw power of Triple Axel or Freeze-Dry for bulky Waters. Tera Blast Electric being an option too if you want to use Triple Axel while beating Dondozo.

 

[competitiveZero]

So do the abilities Pixelate and Galvanize turn Normal moves into Special Attacks then? Because Fairy and Electric are all special in this format.

Not sure if i saw this answer but yes, sure does

 

[tr4umpchoos]

Why are people not running Calyrex-Ice? I know it lost its STABs and being Psychic sucks in a meta where Sucker Punch and Knock Off run rampant but that can be fixed with Tera. Tera's opportunity cost is 100% worth it if you use it on the mon with probably the best BST+Stat distribution combo in the whole game, I've been using it a bit using this set on a team with Chilly Reception Glowking:

Not Like Us (Calyrex-Ice) @ Leftovers
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Heavy Slam
- High Horsepower
- Tera Blast

Who needs STAB when your Heavy Slam consistently has 120BP cuz you weight wayyyy more than any other relevant/legal Pokemon? Y'all should defo give it a try

 

[All Lice]

Why are people not running Calyrex-Ice? I know it lost its STABs and being Psychic sucks in a meta where Sucker Punch and Knock Off run rampant but that can be fixed with Tera. Tera's opportunity cost is 100% worth it if you use it on the mon with probably the best BST+Stat distribution combo in the whole game, I've been using it a bit using this set on a team with Chilly Reception Glowking:

View attachment 631195
Not Like Us (Calyrex-Ice) @ Leftovers
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Heavy Slam
- High Horsepower
- Tera Blast

Who needs STAB when your Heavy Slam consistently has 120BP cuz you weight wayyyy more than any other relevant/legal Pokemon? Y'all should defo give it a try

It feels like more or less like a worse Kyurem B at least on paper. Near zero defensive utility outside of raw stats alongside being slow as molasses w/ no speed boosting or recovery. TR isn't any better really in this format either so it either needs to self tr or a dedicated TR setter both of which have drawbacks. Same rocks weakness as KB but trades it's fighting weakness for a weakness to all the strong sucker punches and knocks that define the tier. I guess it's one advantage is it doesn't keel (as hard) to special pult. Generally a worse movepool than KB too.
Take this all with a grain of salt because I haven't actually given it a shot since I winced and closed the teambuilder after seeing it's physical movepool and I'm also the world's biggest KB truther

 

[Cuddly]

Why are people not running Calyrex-Ice? I know it lost its STABs and being Psychic sucks in a meta where Sucker Punch and Knock Off run rampant but that can be fixed with Tera. Tera's opportunity cost is 100% worth it if you use it on the mon with probably the best BST+Stat distribution combo in the whole game, I've been using it a bit using this set on a team with Chilly Reception Glowking:

View attachment 631195
Not Like Us (Calyrex-Ice) @ Leftovers
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Heavy Slam
- High Horsepower
- Tera Blast

Who needs STAB when your Heavy Slam consistently has 120BP cuz you weight wayyyy more than any other relevant/legal Pokemon? Y'all should defo give it a try

Well before I say why, I was wondering why you weren't using Close Combat or Body Press, or an EV spread to minimize Stealth Rock damage on an Ice type?
Also the reason why its mostly being overlooked is because its an upgraded ZU Pokemon. In regular play, its upgrade by a significant amount thanks to having an absurdly busted signature move in Glacial Lance and Trick Room as an option. Also having similar bulk to pre-multiscale Lugia even as a bad defensive typing is pretty good too.
Without Glacial Lance, it is only slightly better than Glastrier. For perspective, Heavy Slam from Duraludon or Close Combat from Sneasel-H is stronger than Calyrex-I's Heavy Slam/Close Combat without STAB.
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Heavy Metal Duraludon Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 174-205 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
You're slightly bulkier than regular Glastrier and do only slightly more damage, and can Trick Room, but you also have weakness to Fire, Rock, Stealth Rock, Dark, Ghost, Bug, and Steel.

 

[tr4umpchoos]

Well before I say why, I was wondering why you weren't using Close Combat or Body Press, or an EV spread to minimize Stealth Rock damage on an Ice type?
Also the reason why its mostly being overlooked is because its an upgraded ZU Pokemon. In regular play, its upgrade by a significant amount thanks to having an absurdly busted signature move in Glacial Lance and Trick Room as an option. Also having similar bulk to pre-multiscale Lugia even as a bad defensive typing is pretty good too.
Without Glacial Lance, it is only slightly better than Glastrier. For perspective, Heavy Slam from Duraludon or Close Combat from Sneasel-H is stronger than Calyrex-I's Heavy Slam/Close Combat without STAB.
252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 172-203 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Heavy Metal Duraludon Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 174-205 (51 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
You're slightly bulkier than regular Glastrier and do only slightly more damage, and can Trick Room, but you also have weakness to Fire, Rock, Stealth Rock, Dark, Ghost, Bug, and Steel.

TB Fighting >>> CC or BP imo cuz the defenses drop are a bitch on a bulky slow sweeper and you don't get a boost on BP with Chilling Neigh/SD. I see what you mean on everything else tho

 

[OceanicGamer]

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Buzz
- Vacuum Wave

I've been having fun with this one, priority feels really great in this meta




Hydreigon @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Scale Shot
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast

This is such a fun set, and it can even run away with games at times

(Also how do you make the sprites big lol)

 

[Cuddly]

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Buzz
- Vacuum Wave

I've been having fun with this one, priority feels really great in this meta




Hydreigon @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Scale Shot
- Dark Pulse
- Tera Blast

This is such a fun set, and it can even run away with games at times

(Also how do you make the sprites big lol)

Poison is a physical type and will make Tera Blast physical just as an fyi. Honestly using Flash Cannon with mixed spread could work on Hydreigon since most Fairies ard gonna be special walls.
If you want to make big sprites do [game initials]/[pokemon]
Like
SV/Hydreigon

 

[demirab1]

Here's another report. First, a team (sample worthy perhaps? until the first ban wave?). I just used it the entire time on my climb to top 1:

lo kommo balance https://pokepast.es/be1fe3129f03415a

this replay shows how to pilot the team vs other balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2120059965-wbboan7xa0guwu36j557w6j9jma4z9rpw?p2

Notable meta developments and some thoughts:


There's no development, except that now I realize it's extremely uncompetitive. The way this meta plays out, darkrai almost never loses its boots, and given its bulk and the relevant psychic types , and the potency of defensive pivots (especially ), it gets a lot of opportunities to switch in. And whenever it does so, it gets to click ice beam (except for like one knock for each check early game). This becomes a viable wincon in balance vs balance, there's actually no opportunity cost in fishing for a freeze, and darkrai is splashable. The outcome of a freeze depends on the darkrai answer: is very likely to die, loses all of its longevity, doesn't check darkrai anymore. Please let's not have type split deteriorate like this - at least include darkrai in the first poll or whatever.

I've lost to last mon darkrai with my ~50% primarina due to ice beam freeze, unfortunately no replay.

See the replay earlier in this post and also this one: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2119859181-vg9kohq37cuxl6ba4ebplijayr3yk17pw


Zacian is broken with this new life orb set. idbp steel birds no longer survive the 2hko from cc, and mola scald is counterplay only 30% of the time. The only real counterplay is dondozo and balloon intact gholdengo, which zacian has to steel beam in order to break. Please ban.

Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Steel Beam
- Tera Blast

+3 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Zacian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 234-276 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 227-269 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Zacian Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Landorus-Therian: 328-386 (85.8 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 213-252 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


No development, I just realized it's broken and uncompetitive, please ban.


The ladder is filled with sylveon, mostly flame orb facade sets. There's not much to say, it's quite good IMO, the roles it provides are valuable: it checks various HO threats (like iron val, darkrai, chipped dnite etc), and it burns right through spdef unaclef fat:

252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 207-244 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I saw people use various sets, mostly belly drum and dd, notably all looking to abuse boomburst. Good mon. Incidentally, non-boomburst kommo is decent counterplay to these, thanks to soundproof. Thanks Dantheman1cool for this tip :)


I matched into one other person running this, (and i lost to them), but one is still great compared to day 1 when no one else brought volcanion. This mon is good, people, like, you should be using it more i think (2 of the teams i shared here both have good sets) also yes scald > steam eruption on spdef volcanion because pp reasons.

(tera opinion ahead)
There's a delicate balance in viabilities of all the playstyles, and IMO it's kept intact by tera. If tera were to be banned, overall, defensive mons would be significantly buffed, and offensive ones, especially on the physical side and with insufficient natural coverage, would be nerfed. The only way I see this play out is like so: certain mons like zacian and volcarona evade ban, and stall gets a piece banned (dondozo?).

It's consistent with the vision of the om (modern gen 3 but different execution from mg1/mg2) to ban tera, there's no arguing that. But the above outcome IMO would be much less fun and interactive/competitive than the current meta. There are a lot of threats to account for (compared to actual gen 3), and tera provides this intricate flexibility in defensive pivots that makes balance feel good to build and play. Once the blatantly broken abusers are banned, at least.

It should also be kept in mind that tera as a mechanic is heavily nerfed by the om restriction. I'll be open minded in regard to points in favor of tera ban that anyone actually goes ahead and makes.

 

[ZarbyXar]

Here's another report. First, a team (sample worthy perhaps? until the first ban wave?). I just used it the entire time on my climb to top 1:
View attachment 631399
lo kommo balance https://pokepast.es/be1fe3129f03415a

this replay shows how to pilot the team vs other balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2120059965-wbboan7xa0guwu36j557w6j9jma4z9rpw?p2

Notable meta developments and some thoughts:


There's no development, except that now I realize it's extremely uncompetitive. The way this meta plays out, darkrai almost never loses its boots, and given its bulk and the relevant psychic types , and the potency of defensive pivots (especially ), it gets a lot of opportunities to switch in. And whenever it does so, it gets to click ice beam (except for like one knock for each check early game). This becomes a viable wincon in balance vs balance, there's actually no opportunity cost in fishing for a freeze, and darkrai is splashable. The outcome of a freeze depends on the darkrai answer: is very likely to die, loses all of its longevity, doesn't check darkrai anymore. Please let's not have type split deteriorate like this - at least include darkrai in the first poll or whatever.

I've lost to last mon darkrai with my ~50% primarina due to ice beam freeze, unfortunately no replay.

See the replay earlier in this post and also this one: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9typesplit-2119859181-vg9kohq37cuxl6ba4ebplijayr3yk17pw


Zacian is broken with this new life orb set. idbp steel birds no longer survive the 2hko from cc, and mola scald is counterplay only 30% of the time. The only real counterplay is dondozo and balloon intact gholdengo, which zacian has to steel beam in order to break. Please ban.

Zacian @ Life Orb
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Steel Beam
- Tera Blast

+3 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Zacian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Skeledirge: 234-276 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 227-269 (67.9 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ground Zacian Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Landorus-Therian: 328-386 (85.8 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 296-350 (88.6 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Life Orb Zacian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 213-252 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


No development, I just realized it's broken and uncompetitive, please ban.


The ladder is filled with sylveon, mostly flame orb facade sets. There's not much to say, it's quite good IMO, the roles it provides are valuable: it checks various HO threats (like iron val, darkrai, chipped dnite etc), and it burns right through spdef unaclef fat:

252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 207-244 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I saw people use various sets, mostly belly drum and dd, notably all looking to abuse boomburst. Good mon. Incidentally, non-boomburst kommo is decent counterplay to these, thanks to soundproof. Thanks Dantheman1cool for this tip :)


I matched into one other person running this, (and i lost to them), but one is still great compared to day 1 when no one else brought volcanion. This mon is good, people, like, you should be using it more i think (2 of the teams i shared here both have good sets) also yes scald > steam eruption on spdef volcanion because pp reasons.

(tera opinion ahead)
There's a delicate balance in viabilities of all the playstyles, and IMO it's kept intact by tera. If tera were to be banned, overall, defensive mons would be significantly buffed, and offensive ones, especially on the physical side and with insufficient natural coverage, would be nerfed. The only way I see this play out is like so: certain mons like zacian and volcarona evade ban, and stall gets a piece banned (dondozo?).

It's consistent with the vision of the om (modern gen 3 but different execution from mg1/mg2) to ban tera, there's no arguing that. But the above outcome IMO would be much less fun and interactive/competitive than the current meta. There are a lot of threats to account for (compared to actual gen 3), and tera provides this intricate flexibility in defensive pivots that makes balance feel good to build and play. Once the blatantly broken abusers are banned, at least.

It should also be kept in mind that tera as a mechanic is heavily nerfed by the om restriction. I'll be open minded in regard to points in favor of tera ban that anyone actually goes ahead and makes.

While tera can enable offense I believe that tera also enables defense through defensive teras. Also it seems a bit odd to compare the metagame of a om to a pet mod. I can kinda see your point with tera improving coverage but could you give an example of how tera balances the metagame? Although tera does buff offense more than defense it can’t be overlooked how terastallization can possibly improve the matchups of defensive pokemon. I think defensive teras rather than offensive teras on offensive pokemon are commonly problems for metagames.