Announcement SV National Dex UU Stage 3.2: Renegade

[Arishem]

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Continuing from our recent voting slate, we’ve decided to wrap things up and suspect test Mega Gyarados.

Suspect Reasoning:
Since Day 1, Mega Gyarados has made a case for itself as being among the most threatening presences to have ever dropped into the tier, owing to its immense offensive potency as a setup sweeper. its superb defensive capabilities and bulk have lended it to a significant number of opportunities, making it difficult to revenge kill from full with commonly used offensive threats such as Serperior and Mega Aerodactyl, and allowing for setup opportunities against a number of Pokemon in various metagames, including the likes of Gliscor, Excadrill, Weavile, Aegislash, and Slowbro, even being able to utilize its Mold Breaker ability to defeat common Unaware Pokemon that would otherwise deter most physical sweepers like it, such as Dondozo and Skeledirge.

Mega Gyarados’s premier set additionally remains no different from previous iterations, featuring Dragon Dance and 3 attacks in the form of Waterfall, Crunch, and Power Whip, Mega Gyarados is easily able to threaten a significant most teams in the mid-to late game, being fast enough to outrun the majority of the unboosted metagame, barring Mega Aerodactyl after a single boost, while Waterfall and Crunch alone both have the neutral coverage to 2HKO or OHKO, with a single flinch from the former being easily game-changing against defensive Pokemon that would otherwise be able to take a hit or two and strike back, like with Clefable and Iron Hands, access to Power Whip also ensures that Mega Gyarados has the upper hand against several would-be answers to its STAB combination, such as Tapu Fini and Keldeo. Although the standard variant is already extremely threatening to most teams on its own, this too is not the only way to utilize its offensive potential to the fullest -- Taunt and Substitute are both valuable options that allow Mega Gyarados to deny any attempts to force status or stack defensive boosts against it, like with Skarmory. Base forme Gyarados also gives the Mega variant an extra layer of surprise factor to pull these techs off more succesfully, notably through a Fighting-resistance and Ground-immunity, ability to threaten most fighting and grass-type checks with Flying STAB of its own, on top of an ability equivalent to a one-time defensive boost or more in Intimidate -- this last aspect in particular makes Mega Gyarados much more dangerous in practice, limiting the window to deal with it tremendously when having to account for said factors.

However, even disregarding this, Mega Gyarados also comes with its own share of issues. The fairly one-dimensional nature of its role in the metagame on its own can be easily exploited by a number of common defensive Pokemon that Mega Gyarados does not have the means to reliably break past, including common physically defensive Pokemon such as Tera Water Buzzwole, Skarmory, and Tangrowth, while inevitably struggling against certain threats that can naturally adapt to its main attacking combination seeing more usage than before, including the likes of Hydreigon and Tapu Bulu, both also remaining effective outside of dealing with Mega Gyarados. Base 81 speed in conjunction with its pre-mega Stealth Rock weakness also severely cuts into the number of opportunities where Mega Gyarados may be given sufficient conditions to force progress in practice, leaving it more vulnerable to being picked off by faster Pokemon such as Meowscarada and Latios in the process, especially if they opt to run Choice Scarf to outspeed it after a boost, which has since become more prevalent. On top of this, forcing Gyarados to reveal its set in order to try and break through common pivots such as the aforementioned Clefable and Amoonguss, may prove valuable in allowing said revenge killer or check to respond appropriately. That said, as we believe regular Gyarados is fine due to lacking most of the offensive potential of its Mega counterpart by itself, this serves as the primary reason behind us choosing to test the item Gyaradosite instead.


Suspect Test Information

• Reading this is mandatory to participate in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 79 with at least 40 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 79 GXE, down to a minimum of 20 games at a GXE of 83. Also, needing more than 40 games to reach 79 GXE will suffice.

Minimum games needed

GXE	minimum games
79	40
79.2	39
79.4	38
79.6	37
79.8	36
80	35
80.2	34
80.4	33
80.6	32
80.8	31
81	30
81.2	29
81.4	28
81.6	27
81.8	26
82	25
82.2	24
82.4	23
82.6	22
82.8	21
83	20

You must use a fresh account that begins with the given prefix for this suspect test. That prefix is NDUU9GYRA. For example, I could signup and qualify with the name NDUU9GYRA Arishem.

• You may not impersonate or mock another user with your account name. If there is any slight hesitation, you're probably better off picking a different name. We reserve the right to null your voting requisites if you are found impersonating or mocking another user with your account name. Moderator discretion will be applied.
• If you are found trying to manipulate voting requisites in any way, you will be met with a harsh infraction. Manipulating voting requisites ranges from faking your screenshot to asking another user to forfeit.
• The aspect that's being suspect tested, Gyaradosite, will be allowed on the National Dex UU ladder so that we can properly assess its position in the metagame.

NOTE: As this is the last suspect test before any major tiering shifts take place next month, the deadline will be shortened to ensure that the voting period is allowed to run its course. It will last until June the 25th at 11:59 PM GMT+4.

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

Mega Gyarados is easily among the most absurd things to ever grace this meta. A gargantuan base 155 Attack and a decent base 81 Speed combined with solid STAB options, a wide movepool, and notably Dragon Dance make Mega Gyarados insanely scary. But what really pushes it into overcentralizing territory is its weirdly good defensive profile. Intimidate pre-mega combined with 95/109/130 bulk is pretty excellent, especially in combination with Mega's type change, which is effectively a pseudo-tera, drastically altering what can actually check Gyarados.

The result? Mega Gyarados has an extremely easy time setting up for a sweep, with it being a godsend to HO. Otherwise terrifying Pokemon like Blacephalon and Scizor find themselves checked and turned into setup fodder by at least one of its forms, which means it gets at least one Dragon Dance up when faced with them.

Mega Gyarados also has a knack for seriously cutting down on its counterplay. Mold Breaker shuts down pretty much every Unaware user. Status can be negated by Taunt or Substitute (Mold Breaker means even Mega Sabeleye is helpless against them). Water/Fairy-types like Tapu Fini and Azumarill may initially seem like good checks, until Mega Gyarados pulls out Power Whip to annihilate them. It is such a nightmare to fit an answer to everything Mega Gyarados can do or run. You can Tera to try and stop it, but relying on Tera to check this Pokemon means your opponent has much more flexibility on how they can use their own Tera.

Admittedly, Mega Gyarados isn't infallible. Base's Stealth Rock weakness can cut into its bulk, and it definitely has a case if 4MSS. Additionally, there are a few Pokemon that can pretty consistently check both forms, notably Tangrowth. However, ultimately this doesn't make it balanced. Teams still have to run checks to all its options in order to not be put at a serious disadvantage. And the Pokemon that can reliably stop both forms after a Dragon Dance are very few and far between. And if you don't run this excessive or rigid counterplay, then Mega Gyarados is guaranteed to get a KO that leaves the opposing team vulnerable to being swept by one of Mega Gyarados' teammates, if not then a full sweep by itself.

Mega Gyarados contributes to what I'd argue is the main issue in the tier, its skew towards extreme playstyles. The sheer prowess of many of our offensive threats have led to the overabundance of HOs that can accept trading a mon every other turn, or stalls that are among the few teams that don't have to risk trading a Pokemon every time something switches in. With how absurdly hard it is to check every one of Mega Gyarados' sets, balance is forced into rigid team structures that hurt the tier's health. And yes, while this is a buff to stall, the buff to balance and most non-HO team styles is much more notable and necessary. Since broken beating broken isn't good for a tier's health, I do recommend tiering action be given to Mega Sableye, as it's pretty ridiculous in its own right.

Ultimately Mega Gyarados is too overcentralizing and is hurting the tier. I will be voting Ban, and I implore everyone else to do the same.

 

[3MoreMinutes]

last minute post, meant to post this after I got reqs but ended up not getting them until super late. I agree with everything SSJ said, just have a few small things I wanted to add.

The fact that Gyarados can choose not to mega evolve is a huge factor in why I think it is broken. The resist to Fighting and neutrality to Grass are both super applicable, and I click DD in base form in the majority of my games using Mega Gyarados. Prediction is a valid way to beat this, but guesswork is dangerous when dealing with such a dangerous sweeper. The other issue with the fact that it isn't forced to Mega is the fact that Z-Bounce or Tera abusing base Gyarados are perfectly viable options which the opponent must be aware of. These sets completely flip the matchups vs most of the good Mega Gyarados checks (Buzzwole, Tangrowth, Meowscarada), causing there to be barely any "safe" counterplay to a non evolved Gyarados clicking DD.

Screens also need a mention. Mega Gyarados is ridiculous in screens, and while it could be argued that the issue there is screens and not Gyara, Gyarados is the mon being tested. Thanks to Intimidate and great special bulk, Gyarados is almost guaranteed to get to +2/+2 vs most teams. Given that it's a mon that relies heavily on overpowering stuff, it was always going to be ridiculous on screens. I don't think it's debatable that in combination with screens the mon is broken, so I won't waste more time on this.

The problem essentially boils down to that while there is counterplay in the tier, it's so limited/specific that Gyarados's impact on teambuilding is too large, and even when that counterplay is present it can sometimes brute force its way through thanks to absurd stats. Because of this, I will be voting Ban. Good riddance stupid fish.

 

[Arishem]

Mega Gyarados has been banned!