Metagame [Gen 9] Modern Gen 2 [Leader's Choice]

[Charliezard7]

embarassing… there is a froslass mention… tell me you didn’t read it without telling me you didn’t read it I guess…

actually that's pretty embarrassing... just noticed. I just read it while I was waking up so I skipped the part under Meowscarada accidentally. I hope you can forgive me Nog...

 

[Noglastica]

Solomod Premier League MG2 Week 1:
qsns vs. charliezard
lialiabeast vs. concept everything
r8 vs. om

Lots of long games this week as teams definitely went for a bulkier approach outside of qsns who went for offense. I would say several mons had unexpectedly high usage in week 1 which are: Gliscor, Gholdengo, and Starmie all being used 50% (3 of 6 teams) and Blissey with 33% usage (2 of 6 teams). Small sample size but two teams went for a Gliscor + Gholdengo + Starmie core, and another went for a Gliscor + Gholdengo + Dhelmise (spinner). I'm not certain if we're going to see more of this core being used but I wouldn't be surprised if people try to counter this core. Blissey has had almost no usage in the past several months so it is a bit surprising to see it come back, though it certainly was effective in both of its games, with both teams also running heal bell blissey. Double gliscor lead is also a bit surprising as it constantly gets wisped if it wants to stay in T1 vs mew which isn't a huge deal if you're running heal bell/aroma in the back.

qsns vs charliezard: Could've gone differently if Mew didn't win the speed tie boom. Tyrantrum is an interesting pick and I remember seeing Teamo run it, but in a tier with lots of balloon steels I think the power of rock types are limited, especially with teams so conscious of boulder right now.

lialiabeast vs concept everything: Pretty awful matchup for lialiabeast who brought my talon team that really struggles into Gholdengo. The only reason it didn't end sooner is because Copen build a pretty awful set for Gho with physical hex and another ghost move for coverage. The little chance lialiabeast had in this matchup was essentially thrown away Turn 1 letting talon get knocked.

r8 vs om: Pretty tough matchup for om here who brought a weird Blissey + Blacephalon team which is a bit confusing in terms of what the team is actually trying to accomplish. I don't think that tusk can really accomplish too much into a gliscor, especially when tusk gets knocked early on putting it on a timer of taking spikes every time it wants to come in. Loading Boulder + Tusk into Gliscor + Gho is pretty much lost in the teambuilder, and I'll be honest I've never been a fan of normal gem Blacephalon either.

Solopl MG2 Usage

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Gliscor            |    3 |  50.00% |  66.67% |
| 1    | Gholdengo          |    3 |  50.00% |  66.67% |
| 1    | Mew                |    3 |  50.00% |  66.67% |
| 1    | Starmie            |    3 |  50.00% |  33.33% |
| 5    | Blissey            |    2 |  33.33% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Slither Wing       |    2 |  33.33% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Empoleon           |    2 |  33.33% |   0.00% |
| 5    | Iron Boulder       |    2 |  33.33% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Kingambit          |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Dragonite          |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Suicune            |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Walking Wake       |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Iron Moth          |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Melmetal           |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Gastrodon          |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Dhelmise           |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 9    | Blacephalon        |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Great Tusk         |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Chi-Yu             |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Tapu Fini          |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Tyrantrum          |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Talonflame         |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 9    | Garchomp           |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |

MG2 Leads

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads                   | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Gliscor                 |    2 |  33.33% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Kingambit               |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 2    | Mew                     |    1 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 2    | Blacephalon             |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 2    | Talonflame              |    1 |  16.67% |   0.00% |

 

[R8]

Cool post Nog! I think the Gliscor+Gholdengo+Starmie/Dhelmise is an interesting thing to note here, and imo it tells us about what the defensive teams are trying to do/take account of at the moment, and are following some trends we already have been observing before the tournament. I'll share my thoughts on this:


I think a resurgence of Starmie would be no surprise: spinning with it became much easier in thanks to the Dragapult ban, and it outspeeds + threatens the most common ghost in Blacephalon with its water stab. I think it will be interesting to see how teams are going to adapt their hazard game with Starmie in mind in the upcoming weeks. As of right now, i think it looks like there is a possibility for it to establish itself a very important piece of the hazard metagame in MG2 in balance and stall teams alike, but it could very well fall off depending on how the tier adapts to it/generally evolves.


Dhelmise is a bit more susceptible to be played around since it's actually outsped and threatened by the ghosts but it also threatens OHKOes on them if they switch into sball/poltergeist, and knock/spinblocking is ofc always nice. I don't think it's as good as Starmie but it's definitively a solid pick imo, and i think the lialiabeast vs concept everything team showed that well.


Gholdengo is not a very good mon, but it proved to be a near requirement on defensive teams since it is one of the very few reliable answers to Iron Boulder and Terrakion on those teams. Maybe it is a bit of an overreaction tough, but honestly i don't know how else those teams are supposed to deal with it. Maybe there might be an argument to be made that this is a unhealthy dynamic but i think it's too soon to tell for now. Fortunately Gholdengo still has interesting traits, being generally very resilient to hazards, has a good typing allowing it to spinblock, and can make things happen with its access to TWave, Night Shade or even Nasty Plot, which can be annoying to teams that are a bit too passive, although it often wants to run Make It Rain to 2hko Iron Boulder and Terrakion.


One of the easiest ways to fit spikes and to some extent knock off. Spikes are very strong on defensive teams and you don't really have a lot of other good mons that have access to it, besides Mew but Mew really wants to run other stuff. It also is one of the best knock off absorbers since it's both immune to spikes and neutral to rocks, which is very valuable utility.


I think it's kinda obvious people are going to adapt to these pokemon, so i'm very curious to see what countermeasures we are going to see in the upcoming weeks. Even though we mostly saw defensive teams during this first round, offensive teams have the tools to be very effective in MG2 and we definitively can expect to see these in the upcoming weeks as well.

 

[Noglastica]

Nog Blog #9

Yep so back. Gonna be posting on the mg2 games probably tomorrow or Monday as well but came back to post on my favorite mon in the tier, and best starter in any of the games: Empoleon. This is partly for my benefit because I've been wondering what the optimal moveset for Empoleon is to run considering it gets several really solid moves. I'll be talking about alot of the moves it gets, show some calcs, and what it can check defensively and also pressure offensively. This is probably my favorite nog blog I've written to date.

Strong Water STABs
Hydro Pump
Surf
Scald

Coverages
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
Earthquake
Air Slash
Drill Peck
Steel Wing
Shadow Claw
Signal Beam
Throat Chop

Status Inducing/Utility
Sing
Rain Dance
Toxic
Knock Off
Stealth Rocks
Haze
Flip Turn
Aqua Jet

Recovery
Rest
Roost

Setup
Swords Dance
Agility

While there's some random moves on there that you can probably just immediately discredit. There's also some random moves that I didn't include that you might be able to work with like Dive + Toxic Empoleon but that sounds really bad, as does Shadow Claw + Signal Beam but hey I'm doing my best out here.

Defensive Empoleon Moves:
The standard set is just a normal defensive check as part of a core with air balloon, this isn't really too innovative here. The only move you pretty much need to have is going to be roost. You could theoretically go rest if you're planning on having this be your status absorber which it's probably fine at doing, but I'd honestly say at that point you'd probably be better off running stalk Melmetal who can probably serve a similarly effective defensive purpose.

You also probably want at least one utility move from the list above, usually I'm running rocks because it gets to click them alot. The only real issue is that you allow in opposing Starmie for free who gets to spin and force you out with thunderbolt. The good status moves in my opinion are stealth rocks, knock, roar, and toxic. Haze and sing are probably decent options as well but if you want a sing user I'd say Blissey is better cause it gets to click random buttons more often and I'm not sure that Empoleon is really bulky enough to click haze in front of +2 stuff. That being said, if you need a mon that can deal with CM waters as a last mon situation, haze Empoleon would work. Though you might also just pp stall even without haze.

I also don't think that the coverage options are great, it has alot to choose from but nothing that really is hitting hard even if its super effective. Your best look is probably being able to hit something like Starmie in order to deter it from spinning. Unfortunately, shadow claw and signal beam do nothing to it, but you do have grass knot and throat chop, both of which have benefits. Grass Knot is certainly more useful in a variety of situations as its able to hit the waters that will happily come in on your scald and pump with somewhat respectable damage.

248 SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Walking Wake: 105-124 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Samurott-Hisui: 162-192 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Suicune: 140-166 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Starmie: 138-164 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

I left Starmie last so you can compare it to its identical throat chop calc:

248 SpA Empoleon Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Starmie: 138-164 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

While you're hitting less stuff with throat chop as a general rule, you do hit the psychics AND stop them from clicking psychic noise. While it doesn't do much damage and you're slower than I'm pretty sure every psychic noise user, it does essentially force mono-psychic noise mons like Mew into clicking wisp, spikes, or softboiled. Wisp is much easier to switch into when you can simply rest it off the next turn.

248 SpA Empoleon Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Mew: 124-148 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- 65% chance to 3HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Dhelmise: 134-158 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The last real option you have for Empoleon as a coverage move is ice beam.

248 SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Walking Wake: 83-98 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Technically this can be clicked against Wake. Grass Knot does do more but it provides you with an option to do damage vs Wake which mono-water Empoleon cannot do without toxic and trying to make progress with progressive chip in knock, flip turn, and roar.

248 SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Meowscarada: 184-218 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Salamence-Mega: 316-372 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Those are the main coverage options that you have if you're looking for a Water Move + Coverage Move + Status Move + Recovery. I think that and Water Move + Status Move + Status Move + Recovery are probably your best two options for Empoleon sets. That being said, I do think that your water move does depend on whether you're running a secondary coverage move or double status. Let me explain.

Say you're planning on running a something like Scald, Stealth Rock, Knock, and Roost Empoleon. In my opinion, that's way too passive of a set. You're not really applying that much pressure with offensive teams as scald misses alot of important rolls and 2HKOs, while also allowing fat waters to come in happily on scald to avoid burns. Scald + Grass Knot + Stealth Rock/Knock + Roost on the other hand is much more proactive about that in my opinion. While you're still running scald which might not provide as much pressure vs offense, you're significantly improving your matchup against fatter teams that have a bulky water, letting you discourage them with grass knot. Of course, you're still pretty much useless against a team with something like Celebi who doesn't really care about either, but obviously you can't solve every matchup.

Now take something like Hydro Pump + Stealth Rock + Knock + Roost Empoleon. While yes you're still allowing bulky waters to switch in on fatter teams which you're going to struggle with, you now exert more pressure vs offensive teams with pump which gives you some new 2HKOs and even OHKOs vs. certain mons. Keep in mind, offensive teams usually don't have a bulky water outside of Walking Wake which you are probably the best check for in the game anyway. Though you struggle vs bulky water teams, you still have knock and stealth rock to provide some utility. While the scald set also does that, the scald set doesn't really exert the same amount of offensive pressure as pump.

I keep talking about "rolls" and "offensive pressure" with hydro pump that scald doesn't have, so I'm going to put some calcs down with some relevance.

248 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Iron Boulder: 176-210 (45.9 - 54.8%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
248 SpA Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Iron Boulder: 242-288 (63.1 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

248 SpA Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Great Tusk: 372-438 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
248 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Great Tusk: 270-320 (62.3 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

248 SpA Empoleon Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Gliscor: 306-362 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
248 SpA Empoleon Scald vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Gliscor: 222-264 (62.8 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

There's also some 3HKOs you can reach as opposed to scald being a 4HKO which helps you vs some rest loops, but again you do have to hit those. The main role that pump does though is serve as a deterrent for stuff switching in, not so much for revenging/stopping rest loops.

The last thing I wanted to really talk about was the status moves on mono-water Empoleon which is my favorite set. My personal favorite is:

Empoleon @ Air Balloon
Ability: No Ability
- Hydro Pump
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Roost

To me, this is the general "best" Empoleon set on the majority of balance focused teams. You have a good matchup vs offense with Pump against the fire types on offense. You also provide stealth rock support in every matchup, and vs bulkier teams you get to click roar vs whatever grass or waters that want to switch in. It also is just good for scouting teams and dealing with CM users like Latias and Suicune.

That being said, if you already have stealth rock elsewhere or are not a fan of roar, there's plenty of other utility options to choose from that can accomplish similar goals. Haze also beats the CM users and, unlike roar, can check them vs last mon CMers. Flip Turn deals damage and gives momentum vs waters and grass types switching in, though without a strong water STAB you are significantly less threatening, almost forcing you into a Pump + Flip Turn set. Like Flip Turn, Knock also provides some pressure vs waters and grass types switching into you though without the benefit of momentum. Flip is most likely better on more offensive teams while Knock is better on fatter teams. Toxic is also just a good move in general to click, and you can also bring aqua jet if you absolutely need some form of priority revenge move for something like Boulder. That being said, I would say you also need pump with aqua jet for the same reasons as flip turn.

Offensive Empoleon Moves:

I wanted to just give a brief mention to offensive Empoleon sets which can be based off either agility or swords dance. I want to preface this by saying I don't think either are particularly good, BUT I think you could still use with them and find some success vs opposing offense.

Empoleon @ Air Balloon
Ability: No Ability
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Agility

This is probably is the best set though you're not really doing a tremendous amount of damage, it's more of a late game cleaner vs opposing offense. Again, I don't think any of these sets are very good.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: No Ability
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Agility

A DPP throwback set (weird to call it a throwback when we're playing Gen2) but this tries to have more breaking power with sub petaya. You unfortunately do lose your air balloon but I honestly don't think that's all that useful considering after an agility you're faster than everyone and can OHKO all the grounds with pump, usually from neutral + hazards, certainly at +1. The big thing you're missing from DPP sub petaya which is very strong is Torrent which you're sadly missing with no abilities. You're also absolutely getting hard walled by opposing waters but honestly you can just switch which is the smart play or just sub up a few times if they don't have anything to break it and fish for freezes.

Empoleon @ Air Balloon
Ability: No Ability
- Hydro Pump
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Again, none of these sets are good, but this one also tries to break fatter teams with a variety of coverage options. You can obviously flex a bunch of stuff in, maybe run lum + shadow claw to try to deal with Mew.

Empoleon Checks
I'm basically just going to go through a bunch of stuff that I think Empoleon can check and check well. This is going off the VR and basically lets you see "I need checks for Pokemon X and Pokemon Y, already have a check for Pokemon Z, let me tune my Empoleon set based on what helps against X and Y."

These are all Pokemon that Empoleon can confidently switch into. Where it really makes its money is it's one of the few things that can check Wake consistently over a long game.
Melmetal
Walking Wake
Latias
Starmie (unless it's Thunderbolt)
Blissey
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Glimmora
Latios
Meowscarada

248 SpA Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Empoleon: 130-154 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (adjusted for current gen2 crit damage)

Suicune
Tapu Fini
Aerodactyl
Alakazam
Archaludon
Celesteela
Clodsire
Dhelmise
Diancie
Empoleon
Gastrodon
Genesect
Goodra Hisui
Greninja
Hoopa-U (unless fighting move)
Kingambit
Kyurem
Mandibuzz
Mantine
Pecharunt
Salamence
Samurott Hisui
Scream Tail
Snorlax
Tentacruel
Toxapex

These are all Pokemon that, while Empoleon can't switch into very well, can stop them from switch in, or at least prevent them from setting up in your face.
Iron Boulder
Blacephalon
Heatran
Iron Moth
Garganacl
Gliscor (You can theoretically switch into its EQ and force it out before it can knock but....)
Great Tusk
Iron Treads (Same as Gliscor)
Tyranitar
Volcanion
Chi Yu
Landorus-Therian
Moltres
Victini

For those keeping track like me, out of the 70 currently ranked mons, Empoleon either can switch into or prevent them from switching into 50 of them. I may be American but I do know how to use a calculator and say that Empoleon provides a good matchup against roughly 70% of all ranked Pokemon. Obviously you do need to take this with a grain of salt because having Empoleon as your Meowscarada switch in isn't exactly the best idea, BUT it can still be done from full. Empoleon also can get chipped, and getting knocked reduces the number of Pokemon it can check defensively check from 36 to 28. It also makes it much easier to break once it starts taking 18% every time it comes in from spike + rock as opposed to just 6%. One last thing to consider is that many of the Pokemon you can switch into you aren't great at forcing out, or another way of phrasing it, they can also switch into Empoleon. You do have options like roar to force them out, or knock to help make progress for the rest of your team, Empoleon can't really force that many of them out by itself.

Conclusion:
Yeah basically Empoleon is good. It's not busted by any means, I'd probably put it at B, maybe B+ right now if I did a VR but I don't know for sure. It's great on bulky teams as a wake check which already gives it a valuable spot in the meta, but it also checks plenty of other things considering it's a balloon steel. I would say it's main drawback is that it isn't great at exerting much pressure outside of roar/knock vs bulky teams, and it's a water that can't switch into STAB Fire Blasts. Technically... it can switch in to some like Volcanion but you're slower then all of them and most likely not at 100%.

248 SpA Volcanion Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Empoleon: 154-183 (41.5 - 49.3%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Noglastica]

Solomod Premier League MG2 Week 2:
concept everything vs r8
qsns vs lialiabeast
charliezard vs om

Honestly looking at the group now I just want to say I think we have a super stacked tier and potentially the strongest grouping of 6 starters out of any tier, maybe scoot the only real challenge against us.

I thought this was a very interesting week of teams which kinda gets me excited for the next weeks. We did see another Gliscor, Gholdengo, and Starmie team but that's it. Gliscor also takes the top spot in usage alone with 50% usage rate and is also top in leads for whatever reason but hey. I think seeing double raikou was really fun this week, chi yu doing something for once, mega metagross makes a return, and a second dhelmise appearance. I do like seeing two empoleons being used right after my empoleon post though, I blushed a little thanks guys (nobody read it, the usage is completely unrelated).

Concept Everything vs R8 :
I thought it was a good game, we saw the gho + mie + gliscor core on one side vs a classic boom fire spam offense team. Normal diancie and normal tyranitar was also a bit strange to see and I do wonder the general thought process on it, but it ended up having a great matchup into the bulk of r8's fire boom team which can't really make much progress. Psychic Noise mgross kinda won the game keeping gho in boulder range. I'd be curious to know some of the sets on concept's mons because staying in with flamethrower blissey felt a bit weird vs boulder. I'm guessing stalk diancie with earthquake or something idk. This game was also another reminder to me as to why knock tyranitar isn't great because you're not really doing anything with your dark type pressure. Foul play is where it's at. With all the teams focusing on starmie to spin and gho to block spins, I wonder if we see more counterplay to them in the following week.

qsns vs Lialiabeast :
qsns brought another offense team, notably with volcanion, moth, and skymin which all have a nice synergy. Volcanion basically just tries to clear stuff out as a volcanion does, booming on any fat thing that fire types can't break, in this case slowking. Moth gets to try to clean up, as seen in the replay, with their water type eliminated. The sunny day moth was highlighted in full force being able to recover 89% of its health in one turn and then do 66% with solar beam to garg the next. Synthesis Skymin also gives that broken recovery option to your main walking wake check on offense. I think this is another qsns game that started out unlucky and could've gone a completely different way if play on the other end was better. That being said, there's a reason that I'm building and they're playing.

I actually really liked the team lialiabeast brought from anique which I initially thought was my slowking sample but it's actually just a nicer core and I replaced my sample with this team. Several of the moves were a bit strange and gimmicky like confuse ray gholdengo and no pump on wake, but I think the general core of the team is really nice. Essentially the team tries to facilitate Walking Wake through knock, hazards, twave, and salt cure chip. That being said, the core is still nearly identical to the Gho Gliscor Mie cores we kept seeing last week.

Charliezard7 vs OM :
It's a bad day to be a Chi-Yu hater but I think those who stand against the fish will console themselves with the fact the other 364 days of the year are in fact good days to be Chi-Yu haters. That being said, this was a pretty spicy game. I thought the teams on both sides were very interesting and I want to do a bit of a longer breakdown for each of them compared to maybe the other games. My only real critique of this game was that it seemed there was a slight lacking of mg2 mechanics on both sides.

Both sides pretty much brought balance with Charliezard leaning a bit more towards offense than OM. We start off with an interesting Tusk vs Gliscor matchup which both have the not-so-unique ability of being forced out T1 by mew. BUT there's no mew so we can stay in T1. I think both sides played optimally T1 which was getting up rocks (interesting rocks Tusk) and knocking the tusk on the other side. T2 I was surprised to see a switch from the Gliscor who really doesn't care about getting knocked so I would've expected spikes in return but I'm not sure why spikes weren't clicked and why OM seemed to prefer getting Dhelmise knocked instead of Gliscor. Skip a few turns and hazards are back off and we now have a Chi Yu coming in. With hazards down I suppose that Empoleon is indeed a Chi Yu switch in but quickly turns into not a chi yu switch in.

248 SpA Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 248 SpD Empoleon: 159-187 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

Mechanic issue #1 arrives when it seems Charliezard still thinks scald burns water types and I think OM also believed that. We also see a CM Raikou which is incredibly uncommon matched by a CM Latias which is more common but not exactly popular since Gen 8. Mechanic issue #2 I believe comes in with OM running shadow ball dhelmise which is, in my opinion, much less threatening and gives you this calc

248 Atk Dhelmise Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Latias: 224-266 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Instead of this incredibly handsome calc (ignore that they're both 2HKOs imagine it's chipped)

248 Atk Dhelmise Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Latias: 306-362 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The big media will tell you that shadow ball + knock is real until they learn that in MG2 you can still use poltergeist vs knocked pokemon due to the way knock works in Gens 2-4. Then the other big surprise is we get a second Raikou show up making me think this is actually just GSC OU. CM Psychic Noise mew was strong for sure and I thought faced a tough matchup against a rare faster than 100 base speed rest user but that's how mons goes.

Final mechanic issue was then Charliezard at the end not realizing that going over 1000 stat you cannot increase it further. In conclusion, Chi Yu is still not great but it had a great matchup and was able to do what it does (miss fire blast and hope they full para).

Solopl MG2 Usage

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Gliscor            |    6 |  50.00% |  33.33% |
| 2    | Gholdengo          |    5 |  41.67% |  40.00% |
| 2    | Starmie            |    5 |  41.67% |  40.00% |
| 4    | Iron Moth          |    4 |  33.33% |  75.00% |
| 4    | Mew                |    4 |  33.33% |  50.00% |
| 6    | Great Tusk         |    3 |  25.00% |  66.67% |
| 6    | Blissey            |    3 |  25.00% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Iron Boulder       |    3 |  25.00% |  33.33% |
| 6    | Empoleon           |    3 |  25.00% |   0.00% |
| 10   | Melmetal           |    2 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Walking Wake       |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Chi-Yu             |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Tapu Fini          |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Raikou             |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Dhelmise           |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Blacephalon        |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Slither Wing       |    2 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Azelf              |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Shaymin-Sky        |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Volcanion          |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Latias             |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Kingambit          |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Dragonite          |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Suicune            |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Heatran            |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Metagross          |    1 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 18   | Slowking           |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Garganacl          |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Iron Treads        |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Talonflame         |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Garchomp           |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Tyrantrum          |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Tyranitar          |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 18   | Diancie            |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |

MG2 Lead Stats

+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Leads | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ----------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Gliscor | 4 | 33.33% | 25.00% |
| 2 | Blacephalon | 2 | 16.67% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Azelf | 1 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Great Tusk | 1 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Kingambit | 1 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Mew | 1 | 8.33% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Walking Wake | 1 | 8.33% | 0.00% |
| 3    | Talonflame              |    1 |   8.33% |   0.00% |

 

[Charliezard7]

wait scald doesn't burn waters here? What a mess of a tier fr

 

[R8]

wait scald doesn't burn waters here? What a mess of a tier fr

its how it should work TBH

 

[Noglastica]

Nog Blog #10
This is the fabled 10th Nog Blog and I'll be celebrating with my own person viability ranking. This is a much larger VR than any other MG2 VR, or any VR in any tier I've ever seen. I wanted to include all the Pokemon I thought were at all viable and give my thoughts on each one and what I think they can contribute and what niche they can find. I hope you enjoy, and I hope you let me know your thoughts and maybe post a VR of your own.

S1
Mew - Just on its own, Mew's Psychic Noise + Wisp + Spikes + Softboiled is probably the best individual set in the tier. Combine it with the fact that Mew can learn almost every move and run random mixup sets, work as a suicide lead, or setup sweeper, it just makes Mew the absolute best mon in the tier to the point where I think it deserves its own tier.

S2
Walking Wake - I'll be completely honest, I almost think that Wake is closer to S1 than it is to A1. I love just adding Wake onto balance teams where it serves a similar role as Dragapult did in being able to reliably deal with offense. With very few checks in the tier and the option to run either Knock or Flamethrower, wake is a good revenger and breaker.

A1
Blacephalon - Probably the only mon to have stayed in A on every single VR without either reaching S or dropping to B. The clown has little that can switch in and also can boom on everything. MG2 offense nearly always seems to have a Blacephalon on it and the entire concept of offense seems to revolve around Blacephalon.
Iron Boulder - I keep hearing mixed signals from people about how Boulder is either overrated or busted and might need to be banned. One of the best fastest mons in the tier, not much can really check it at +2 and it's a great late game cleaner on either offense or balance teams.
Iron Moth - We've been having a bit of an Iron Moth renaissance in recent weeks with the popularity and effectiveness of sunny day Moth increasing. Gone are the Moths of old with toxic spikes, u-turn, and even energy ball. Passing up on 1.5x boosted Fire Blasts and strong Solar Beam coverage for waters, and being able to heal 99.9% from Morning Sun combined with Sunny Day is too strong to pass on.
Melmetal - I would say the embodiment of Modern Gen 2. Melmetal is great for keeping offense, bulky offense, and balance teams stable with great speed control and bulk over the course of a long game. It's taking a hit in viability with the popularity of gliscor BUT it still certainly remains in top company for me. Literally hasn't changed its set in over a year. Theoretically can use twave bash eq boom on offense but I feel like even normal set is just more reliable, even on offense.

A2
Heatran - Previously my favorite mon in the tier, Heatran has fallen off in favorability for me. Its durability feels lacking more often than not and more difficult to fit on teams. I honestly think it fits best as a complementary role to Blacephalon on offense as another fire + boom user but with rocks.
Latias - Latias has progressively been dropping in the rankings for me. For what was once considered the best mon in the tier, the Gen9 and DLC mons make Latias much less threatening as a wincon and with so many balloon steels, making progress is more difficult than ever.
Latios - Probably the first ever MG2 VR that has Latios and Latias in the same tier, I think Latios is really neat now and I actually prefer it slightly more than Latias. If you're planning on having a lategame wincon, then Latias is still your bet. But the extra damage and access to Psychic Noise and even Psycho Shift as a surprising 3rd move I think gives Latios the edge.
Slither Wing - Probably my second most used mon behind Wake, I love being able to slap Slither Wing on the end of my teams which is why it's always in the 6th slot of my builder. The ability to click First Impression any turn makes up for its poor speed and with Close Combat gives it a solid coverage option. Wisp, U-Turn, Bulk Up, and Morning Sun make up the 3rd and 4th spots of your set which you can pick and choose from. Being able to revenge Mew and Iron Boulder from around 70% is valuable on every single team.

B1
Empoleon - If you somehow missed my longest ever post exclusively on Empoleon check it out here. The TLDR is that Empoleon is a great defensive wall but at times can be too passive and has too many moves it wants to run. Great utility mon, and great Walking Wake check.
Garchomp - Extremely hard hitter + spikes is great. Unfortunately no knock puts it susceptible to balloon steels but you do have the option to run fire blast on a respectable 80spa stat.
Gliscor - The Gliscor bandwagon is absolutely real right now. A few months ago I did a deep dive on why Gliscor is good which you can also find here. In essence, Gliscor is the best knock absorber in the tier, while also getting to set spikes/rocks and spam earthquake + its own knock throughout a battle.
Gholdengo - Pretty much the Melmetal of stall, Gholdengo is the glue that helps stall together and without it, stall would be much less viable. It's ability to check the tier is unparalleled as it's only weakness is to fire with air balloon and gen2 steel resistances. The only reason it's not higher is that it has a pretty horrid movepool relying essentially on thunder wave for much value.
Great Tusk - Not much likes switching into Tusk STABs + Knock. Getting to choose between rapid spin, substitute, and even stealth rocks can provide it some variability though you pretty much know what you're getting from it.
Starmie - The best spinner in the tier, and the best spinner at spinning (Tusk is a spinner but its not really a spinner.) 32pp recover is always nice, solid defensive typing even if the stats aren't all there. Great speed tier will always keep it relevant and the ability to spin or throw on extra attacks makes Starmie incredibly versatile and a viable option on every type of team.
Volcanion - Blacephalon has little that can switch into it, but what can switch into it, it can't really make progress against with boom (see rock types.) However, nothing really in the tier can switch into STAB fire blast, steam eruption, and absorb a boom, making Volcanion a powerful breaker. It's only real downside is its low-middling speed tier.

B2
Blissey - Overhated mon, Bliss the best special check in any tier. While it can be pivoted on and doesn’t threaten offensively like Gholdengo, it’s strong on stall where it can shore up holes and provide heal bell support.
Garganacl - Probably the best Blacephalon check in the tier, Garg gets to click rocks and then spam salt cure. Unfortunately salt cure isn’t that great on its own so you really just need a single rock resist on your team. It does get boom though!
Iron Treads - Fallen off considerably in usage, perhaps due to Iron Boulder and Gliscor usage increasing, but treads is still a great knock distributor, great balloon steel, and strong spinner. Bring back treads.
Kommo-o - The guy who wins on paper every game, Soulblaze puts you in a speed tier of your own and bulks up Kommo considerably. Unfortunately hazing and psychic noise both exist, as does explosion, meaning Kommo doesn’t set up or sweep as freely as you might imagine.
Meowscarada - Good speed tier, spikes, foul play, knock, and one of two mons with a strong grass STAB.
Salamence - Both regular Salamence and Mega Salamence would find its way into the C tier, but the fact that you can run either on one mon has me put it in B2. Mega Salamence has a bunch of coverage options that it can run so you don’t really know what you’re getting hit with. Hone Claws is so much worse than Dragon Dance because sure you might be hitting your hurricanes but you’ll also be getting revenged by every fastmon in the tier. Regular mence is also fine with just boots, draco, fire blast, and whatever.
Shaymin Sky - Sub Protect Leech is solid on balance teams as it can farm with hazards up considering they do not get the chance to hit you. Boots sets on offense serve as your only real Wake switch-in while also getting to help revenge Iron Boulder with its near unparalleled speed.

Slowbro/Galar Slowbro - This combines both Slowbro and Galar Slowbro as both are mainly just viable as a mega, otherwise I think the Slowkings are better. Mega Bro gets to click CM and just not die. Counterplay revolves around status, psychic noise, taunt, encore, and trying to crit through it. It almost feels like regular Slowbro in RBY.

Sneasler - Used to be really decent with a good speed tier pre-Boulder but now with a Gliscor and Gholdengo on every team, Sneasler always has a rough matchup. SD, Dire Claw, CC, Pivot, I think it even gets tspikes.

Suicune - The boy who CM'd, come to die. It's running calm mind, surf if they're bad and scald if they're good, rest, and either roar or sleep talk. Think of it like slowbro but while it's not as strong you get to try to win more than once.
Tapu Fini - Previously a pult cope mon, now it's a wake cope mon. Fini is good as a bulky water but due to the fact that it's grounded and gets knocked easily, it can get chipped very quickly forcing you to be asleep and clicking stalk for the whole game which isn't inherently bad but you don't really have any control over the mon.
Terrakion - Boulder but if it were slower than all the good mons.
Toxapex - I think another overhated mon, pex is a really solid choice on stall for a primary fire and wake check. It gets to knock, scald, click recover 32 times, and even set up tspikes or haze.
Tyranitar - Same reason as mence, I think regular and mega ttar are both C but you get to choose either with it so it's going in B. It's a rare viable dark type and you can always consider pursuit on it. Mega gets to click a bunch of moves but isn't as strong as mence.
Zapdos - Rare viable electric type that's not banned, Zapdos is really underrated imo. Teams without a ground type can absolutely fold under thunderbolts and those with a garchomp/gliscor also will lose to hp ice sets. Combined with longevity in roost + boots, and options to run heat wave and u-turn makes zapdos excellent in the right matchup. If you ever plan on being the 2nd person to ever run rain, zapdos is great at that too with Thunder, Hurricane, and Weather Ball which offers no switch ins.

C1
Niche, certainly usable and can be good. C1 to me are not "bad," but they're not that good.
Aerodactyl - Like mega tyranitar but its regular form isn't good so it's going in C. Mega Aero does get to run hone claws with its great speed tier, you just struggle vs teams that have a balloon steel (so literally every team.)

Archaludon - Very tanky, balloon steel and dragon. It gets to click stuff.
Azelf - One of my personal favorite leads. Azelf gets psychic noise, fire blast, explosion, stealth rocks, and a very fast encore. Lots to choose from.
Celebi - Recover, rocks, twave, heal bell, the main issue is usually having to decide between psychic and grass STAB.
Chi Yu - Setup sweeper. Without its ability, Chi-Yu has less breaking power and you need some way of increasing your speed to avoid being revenged whether thats sub-salac or flame charge.
Dhelmise - Spinner and spinblocker in one, gets to click knock and poltergeist. Noobs use shadow ball. Running synthesis feels not great but so does rest.
Diancie - Like aerodactyl, great offensive sweeper as a mega but can't touch the balloon steels. Does get the option for mystical fire though. Also boom is really good. Regular set can just be used as an option on stall for hazards with stalk.
Ferrothorn - If you wanna click spikes, rocks, and knock but not have a recovery move. Can boom, can twave, can knock. No recovery hurts.
Genesect - Iron head, u-turn, boom, shift gear, likes to run flamethrower for the steels. I think it can even go ice beam for gliscor cope.
Glimmora - Overrated, happy usage is tanking. Either forced out by the most common 2 leads in the tier (Mew and now Gliscor) or gets up 1 layer of hazards and dies. Used on offense if you want to get up less hazards than if you used mew for the sake of lowering mew usage.
Goodra Hisui - I basically got 6-0d in back to back games during a Bo3 by curse stalk Hoodra so I'm not sure I'm legally allowed to put it lower than this. It's not really been used outside of that and with more fighting types I don't think it's got a great spot in the meta. But I was also 6-0d in back to back games during a Bo3 so here we are in C1.
Kyurem - Previously bundle cope, people like to use it now for whatever unknown reason. Gets to sub, dragon tail, freeze dry, and roost. It can actually be really difficult to force out as it can tank all the strong dracos in the tier and clap back with freeze-dry, or just roost it off. Can't even roar it out as gen2 roar is -1 priority (faster priority than whatever -5 or -6 dtail is) but fails if it isn't the last move.
Landorus Therian - Kinda just gliscor but if you didn't want to immediately die to HP ice or special moves, but also don't want spikes or recovery. Gets to knock, eq, sd, and rocks like gliscor with a nicer speed tier, but you only really get the option to boom (and gravity) instead of roost.
Metagross - Scary guy. I think the first time I've put it C and not the bottom of B. Another mon that feels like on paper it can farm most teams. While demongross and offensive sets are both real, it's held back by the fact every team basically has a fire type, one time mega mechanics, and gen6 mega mechanics.
Raging Bolt - Good CM user, might deserve to be higher, just haven't seen enough from it. Also walled by good mon treads.
Roaring Moon - Fast, knock, eq, u-turn, roost. Unfortunately it's one of the dark types that really needs its physical attack stat meaning you can't really bring it into mew wisps like you can with the others.
Scream Tail - Can go stored power or just use it as a fairy type wall. Hasn't been seen a ton.
Sinistcha - Same as scream tail where you can either choose CM setup, or use it as a defensive option with unique typing. Can't spin or knock like dhelmise, but you get stun spore and a solid grass STAB.
Slowking - Wake check, gets to click psychic noise, scald, and chilly reception. Bulky waters are good. Needs something to deal with Blacephalon on its team though.
Victini - I love victini. While you wish it were even just 1 speed point higher, you hate trying to switch into its vcreate + bolt beak. You can run psychic move, u-turn, and glaciate last.
Zapdos Galar - Strong boy, gets to click the CC move, the BB move, and the U-Turn move. Bulk up is an option. Dengo matchup sucks for it as does a middling speed tier, but it's probably underutilized.

C2
Not as good or consistent as C1, and usually has a smaller niche.
Archeops - It's like aerodactyl but with worse speed trading off for roost and boots (or acrobatics). SD can be real but I think you get revenged by too much.
Arctozolt - Nothing switches into freeze-dry + bolt beak. The one time I played it I learned that apparently clicking U-turn, even while faster, still gives a 2x bolt beak power boost vs the mon that switches in! Very cool.
Buzzwole - Do you like everything slither wing does? Well take them away and give it toxic and some defense. Buzz has solid defensive typing but it's not all that great. Solid physical wall but it's hard to slot into teams.

Camerupt - Yeah that's right. You might be thinking "where's x mon? Why hasn't that been ranked yet? Did he really just rank the camel over whatever stupid mon I like more?" Yep. Camel is so fun to use on offense. Super strong fire move, ground move, and sure just throw in a rock move cause why not. Everything's getting chipped. You get to claim, then you get to boom. Speed is laughable though. Shoutout camel.
Celesteela - Surprisingly resilient, also can run setup options. Needs to be experimented with more.
Clodsire - Another zera merchant. Might not be a reason to use it over gliscor right now unless people start overprepping with hp ice. 32pp recover means nog will be ranking it.
Electrode Hisui - I think another underrated tool on offense. Faster than everything ranked above it, and also it's somewhat difficult to switch into grass + electric STAB? Bad grass moves suck for it but hey at least you can just boom to cope. Volt + Tbolt + Grass + Boom.
Flutter Mane - Another fastmon but I'm not really sure what it does. Kinda just clicks non-stab special moves and stalk. Can be annoying.
Greninja - I always look at gren in the builder and it looks so solid with spikes, good special stabs, pivot, and speed. Unfortunately it just feels too frail and not strong enough when actually in game.
Houndoom - The doom is so back. Pursuit/crunch if you're asking for mew to be banned. Plot + flame charge + stabs if you're incredibly handsome.
Hydreigon - Plot + stabs if you're incredibly handsome. Roost/fire blast last usually.
Infernape - Yeah that's right. You might be thinking "where's x mon? Why hasn't that been ranked yet? Did he really just rank the monkey over whatever stupid mon I like more?" Yep. Monkey is so fun to use on offense. Pretty strong fire move, fighting move, and throw on U-turn cause why not. Everything's getting chipped. Rocks or coverage last. Shoutout monkey.
Jellicent - Cool defensive typing, wisp + scald means everything gets burned. 32pp recover means nog ranks.
Kartana - I think undertested, Kart absolutely needed physical grass to be strong but without leaf blade its meh. SD feels like mu fish, as does trying to use synthesis + knock utility.
Kingambit - Stalk, knock, foulplay. Can go rocks.
Lucario - SD + stabs + sub or coverage/priority. Luc is decent on offense.
Milotic - Gen8 mon but really bulky. Like fini it can be chipped really easily through hazards but it also gets to click its moves and hypnosis while awake.
Moltres - Gen8 mon that's pretty much been surpassed both other fires like moth. I think it might provide more defensive utility, and more importantly, its gen2 shiny sprite is top tier.
Pecharunt - If Pecharunt had moves it'd be good, but it doesn't, so it's not. You know what I'm saying? Treads eq being a 2HKO roll is a joke though.
Raikou - CM or rest+roar utility. Usually just want to use a ground though. Tbolt + hp ice is cool though.
Regieleki - Raikou but faster and no hp ice. Boom + spin though means it will technically always be usable.
Samurott Hisui - Feels like it should be better but without sharpness it's damage really isn't great. Can be annoyingly bulky for some teams to deal with.
Skarmory - Spikes are good. Also being neutral or resisting every physical move is good too. Gho but if it were worse and had spikes.
Slowking Galar - Regular Slowking if you had less desirable defensive typing in this meta.
Talonflame - Fast wisp + uturn + roost. Fire blast last but could experiment with brave bird or something. Struggling with talon? Try not letting it get knocked t1.
Ting Lu - More like Ting Who. Spikes + eq + ruination + rest I think is its best set. If it got foul play I would definitely put it higher.
Ursaluna - Very strong attacker with SD but balloon meta so...
Urshifu Rapid Strike - Wish it were faster and special water is slightly made up for by 2x crits. CC + Uturn is nice.

C3
Usable but while C1 and C2 are "not good" these are "not good."
Alakazam - CM spam cope, good speed tier, 32pp recover (and encore) means nog ranks. Very frail.
Corviknight - Skarm but no spikes, gets to u-turn though.
Cyclizar - Shed tail mon. Max max ev meta though means that you don't really want to dedicate a whole slot to it. I can't even really think of what really wants this. Maybe boulder??
Excadrill - Treads if it were slower BUT could click swords dance. No knock.
Forretress - I actually used it a decent amount in gen8. Spin. spikes, rocks, tspikes, explosion, volt switch. But, better on paper than it is in game.
Gastrodon - Ultra melm cope, the reason some melms were delusional and ran body slam instead of twave. Good stabs, toxic, 32pp recover means nog ranks.
Gengar - Physical stabs means youre running like tbolt + fire punch + ice punch or whatever and nasty plot. Great speed tier after mega of course but bulk bulk meta so... even bulky steels can eat +2 fire punch.
Heracross - I love my fighting bugs. Undefeated mon heracross is used almost exclusively because its gen2 sprite is drippy af. Curse stalk megahorn is really the only set I like.
Hippowdon - Gliscor but if you said "I wish I couldn't hit anything with eq so I click whirlwind and toxic instead."
Hoopa Unbound - Breaker with stabs walled by the most common defensive type in the game. Focus punch is HIM though.
Hydrapple - Kinda just bulky CM cope, probably likes the multiple good ground types more than raging bolt, but I still don't think it's that good. Also has been used like one time so.
Mandibuzz - Gen 8 mon, kinda really bulky at times? Does nothing other than knock and u-turn. Mew cope mon tbh.
Mantine - Wake cope mon.
Necrozma - Hits harder than you think, but I think Photon Geyser always stays special.
Ribombee - Webs are not good but I included cyclizar so I feel like I need to include ribombee. Webs are not good. Everything has balloon or boots for the most part so you're already hitting very little. Webs are not good. You're also dedicating an entire team slot for a small advantage over 1-2 mons. Webs are not good. Spin also exists. Webs are not good. It's probably more effective clicking stun spore than webs. Webs are not good.
Rotom - I'm including all rotom forms in this even if they get the same defensive typing. I think it's usable with volt switch, wisp, pain split, and then you can throw on pump/overheat or whatever last. Hasn't really been touched since gen8 when we didn't have spinners with knock.
Snorlax - Feels wrong putting it UR when it's also underutilized. Curse might be real and we just don't know it. Also gets boom!
Tentacruel - Spin, toxic spike absorber and distributor, scald, knock. No recovery means nog don't like ranking it.
Toedscruel - Spin, toxic spike and spike distributor, knock, and spore. Probs better than tentacruel actually.
Tyrantrum - Hits hard but it's also like ttar and suffers from balloon steel meta.